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Yanks... Someone save us!

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by Chael, Jul 6, 2006.

  1. Chael

    Chael Engaging Member

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    The intention of this thread is not to offend any American users who are respectable, safe shooters of Firearms.

    I was browsing an american based forum just now and came acroos this here, is it any wonder the whole of america is gun crasy and there are so many shooting related deaths...

    With messages like that circulating around public forums you have to wander what the world will come to... or America at least...
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2006
  2. Austin

    Austin Well-Known Member

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    ****(crap) . . . (sorry, I can't write that word here)

    Well, that just about sums up the USA for you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2006
  3. Chael

    Chael Engaging Member

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    yea... I mean really like, especially that first quote... What kind of statement is that!?
     
  4. Austin

    Austin Well-Known Member

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    An American one :p The quickest way to end the war in Iraq would be to simply send Dick Cheney over there to go quail hunting with a shotgun :lol:

    (Can I say that here?)
     
  5. Venator

    Venator Newbie

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    How dare you say that about our American cousins, just look at some of the few fantastic things they have given us.

    Foul language, rotten violent TV programmes, bubble and chewing gum, obesity with diet Coke, Jeans, (C)Rap Music,
    Mac Donalds and the grey squirrel.:rolleyes:

    Small wonder if His holiness the Pope and George Bush came to see Tony Blair, he would choose to see the Pope first, because he would only have to kiss his ring.
     
  6. Chael

    Chael Engaging Member

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    lol, America, The only place were someone will order a supersize meal of a burger and fries along with a pudding made out of leftover chip fat and then order a diet coke because they are trying to stay healthy :D
     
  7. Austin

    Austin Well-Known Member

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    LOL, you guy have just made my day. Don't forget, they also ignored WWII until Japan decided to give 'em what they deserved, then blew half of Japan sky high. And the War of 1812, where they told the British where they could go, how to get there, and where to stickthe King's crown. They also are the source of most of all the conflicts in world politics right now, and are truly a nation controlled by the media. Just look at CNN, they have BSed us so much. Also, they gave us about 51% of the world's idoits to make fun of. (hey, each cloud has a silver lining, however how small)

    Sorry for bashing America so harshly, but honestly, it's no wonder the world hate the USA.
     
  8. Chael

    Chael Engaging Member

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    Ok, enough with the history (I have a never look back theme today :D). We are getting a bit off topic here, I made this thread about gun safety and attitude in the US, not to bash them.

    If we want a thread about the negatives of America, we can start a thread in the general section and make sure it dosent get to out of hand.

    I am not trying to restrict anyone posting or voicing their opinion so dont get me wrong, its just that this isn't the place to do it and I dont want to offend anyone... So anyway back on to topic.

    The number of shooting related crimes, deaths and injurys in America speaks for itself, I think they need to do something about it, I don't mean they have to licence it like the UK or anything but maybe restrict power, They only thing I can think of off the top of my head that america has done about guns is forbid screw on silencers, though I really dont know why considering the wide range of bull barrels you can get now.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how america can improve its gun problem? (YES it has become a serious prolem!)
     
  9. Austin

    Austin Well-Known Member

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    Well, they could stop handing out pistols at the banks in Texas :lol: Actually it's true. But anyway, a good gun registry is a start. keeping track of everybody that has a sidearm would bring down the illigal sales.

    Ok guys, if anyone wants to bash America, do it in the 'Get It Off You Chest section of the forums.
     
  10. Vulcanator

    Vulcanator Engaging Member

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    Sir,

    While the first quote is certainly wierd to say the least, in regards to the second and third you seem to leave out the obvious. In the USA the second amendment of the constitution of the United States permits the lawful ownership of arms by civilians.

    In the USA, people buy weapons for personal defence, so comment two and three make perfect sense to me, in fact in many states in the US, people are allowed to carry concealed weapons (proven statistically to have lowered crimes rates in states that have right to carry laws).

    In regard to Mr. Wingman's comment of a gun registry, are you suggesting we waste almost 2 billion dollars like you have in Canada to set up a system that is not functioning properly to this day, and has had no real effect on gun crime in Canada?

    And to my expatriates in the UK, spare me your sanctimonious rants, while you may sneer at the American culture, its history and present day maladies here this - I'll still have the right of true self defence and ownership my firearms and air weapons long after your weapons will have been surrendered to the government!
     
  11. Vulcanator

    Vulcanator Engaging Member

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    Chael,

    You've got to be kidding me mate!

    If you honestly think that gun registration and licencing will reduce crime you must be smoking something. In fact look no further to the crime rates in the UK to see my point.

    In 1988 I had to surrender my L1A1 (SLR) rifle to the goverment after the Hungerford massacre, the public were told it would make them safer and reduce gun crime. Fact, there was no significant increase or decrease in crime.

    Fast forward to the Dublane massacre in 1997, afterwards there was a complete ban on handguns with the exception of Northern Ireland!!! In the 4/5 years after the ban gun crime had increased by 40%! (reported by the Daily Telegraph)

    Violent crime in the US in the 90's has steadily decreased and has only shown a slight uptick with the latest FBI stats, whereas in the UK it has only gone up and up, in fact I have read that the UK is one of the more dangerous places in Europe-go figure.

    In the USA, it is quite ironic that the states with the most restrictive gun laws have the worst crime rates. What would help also is if judicial juristictions enforced all the twenty odd thousand gunlaws that are already on the books and not plea bargain them away.

    In fact if we have a gun problem it is the fact that not enough good people have them!
     
  12. Chael

    Chael Engaging Member

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    I know that US citizens buy firearms as personal defence weaponary, but surely, even to you Mr. Vulcanator does it not seem weird that all the quotes are pointing towards shooting someone wether or not they are an intruder??? I think so...

    'At the longest distance possible'

    For a pump action 12 bore (guage) shotgun the 'maximum distance possible' will be around 50-80 yards. Now tell me this, how can you possibly tell if someone is a threat if they are 65 yards away.
    eg. Someone who just happens to wear black is walking up towards your house, you assume they are carrying a weapon, so you fire at them while you cant even see who they are, maybe they were coming for directions?

    That was only a mere example, a bad one at that but you can see the point I am making. I was not going to mention this because I cannot find the quote accuratly so it wont be precise but I recall on the same forum people saying to buy a good centre fire rifle because they can shot a couple of miles and also would be able to go through walls...

    Why will you need a centre fire rifle anywhere were people will be walking/passing?




    I can see we both have are opinions here and that neither of us is going to be swayed to beleive the other, so opinions are opinions and mine is that America is a gun crazy country bent on needing to kill people wether they pose a threat or not, not to mention gang wars, when do you ever hear about the 'londoners' having a 4 day shootout against the 'pall mall crew'?
     
  13. Chael

    Chael Engaging Member

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    actually, I am going to leave someone else to comment here while I check some statistics.
     
  14. Vulcanator

    Vulcanator Engaging Member

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    You don't, they just stagger out from the pubs after closing and knife everybody in sight!

    Seriously though, whilst you may have the impression of the U.S. gun culture having a "shoot first ask questions later" mentality, nothing could be further from the truth. In most states, the laws of using lethal force in self defence apply only if you or someone else is in imminent fear of your life accorded by the threat you have encountered.

    Poor judgement on ones part (e.g. shooting a man in black without properly establishing intent) will result in a murder charge instead of exoneration of "justifiable homicide". When most states started allowing concealed carry by its residents there was a major outcry by the anti-gun brigade and the press. They predicted streets running with blood, wild west shootouts, etc, etc, etc, however with the passsage of time the opposite has been proven.

    States with liberal "carry laws" have demonstrated lower violent crime rates overall most often not requiring the firing of a shot, so the evidence is clearly there that the gun carrying Yankee is exercising the right of self defence in a lawful and prudent manner.

    In regards to the gang issue, no gun law is going to disarm them. Remember, in the UK more stringent gunlaws have only resulted in more gun & violent crime.

    In regards to using a shotgun at 50-70yds, that does give me pause, only loaded with a rifled slug would a shotgun be effective at that range. The only threat I can think of that would need such standoff capability must be armed with a rifle, that being the case I would prefer a rifle myself (AR15 please!)

    I do not doubt that regretfully we do have some people in posession of weapons that should not, without seeing first hand the forum you refer to for the subject of this thread it is hard to draw context. Remember any centrefire rifle will do major damage to persons or property, even target rifles, it is responsible ownership and use that makes the difference.
     
  15. Chael

    Chael Engaging Member

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    I see your point, I will try and find that forum again and then post the link up here... I never even thought to do that at the start...

    With regards to shotgun range, most good 12 and 10 bore shotguns will definatley go at least 50 yards with enough force to wound, and I mean a big wound...
     
  16. Austin

    Austin Well-Known Member

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    Before I get started, Vulcanator, all of my comments here were light-hearted remarks. Just a little quote I keep in mind: Once freedom is outlawed

    Just kidding. Actually, 'Steve' Harper is abolishing the registry. Finally Canada is going Conservative, or Republican as you yanks say.



    I'm a G3 SG1 man myself. (Or HK 416) I had an AK74SU wiating for me, but since Oka, it had to be surrendered :(


    Just ask Dick Cheney or the guy he peppered :D


    I've been hoping that Canada would bring this into play.


    God Help America
     
  17. Austin

    Austin Well-Known Member

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    Don't let this get outta hand.No direct attacks on otheres please. I'm not saying I saw any, just don't let it come to that.
     
  18. Vulcanator

    Vulcanator Engaging Member

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    I am pleased that the Canadian's have come to their senses and voted the Liberal's out of office, perhaps some more commonsense will be injected into was is a fine country. The gun registry is a waste of taxpayer money that would have served no use whatsoever.

    My commiserations to you having to give up your weapon. Buddy of mine had a G3 in the UK prior to the ban, shot it at Bisley, good rifle.

    Lucky Cheney was using birdshot, his buddy would of been dead if hit with a rifled slug!

    I think we'll be OK mate.
     
  19. Vulcanator

    Vulcanator Engaging Member

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    A web forum is not the best regarding getting ones message across with interpretation or context.

    As someone who has lived in the US for 18yrs I'm aware of their "idiosyncracies". I have seen both the good and bad of US culture, policy and diplomacy around the world, however I will vigorously defend my fellow citizens on any matter I feel is uncalled for and unreasonable.

    While I may disagree on certain matters, it will never be personal.

    Kind regards.
     
  20. Austin

    Austin Well-Known Member

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    I have nothing against the US, just some of it's citizens. The first time I was in the US, I had come along on a chartered flight with a pilot friend. So, I had some time to kill so I went for a walk. See, this was near the Mexico border down in the south west area. So anyway, I guess I walked a little too close to the border, because from a hundred yards away I see this guy with a scattergun. Then he sees me and starts shouting profanity at me, and then started blasting in my direction with his shotgun. I think he mistook me for an illeagal immigrant. I high-tail it back to the plane and that was that.
    True story.

    I think some Americans should get thier brains checked.
     

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