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Question Which scope would you recommend...

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by eagle2508, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. eagle2508

    eagle2508 Well-Known Member

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    I want to concentrate mainly on target shooting at my local clubs indoor range, 30-35 yards usually and from time to time on their outdoor range (once it warms up!) occasionally I will also do a little hunting for rabbits.

    Which scope would you all recommend... A few people at the club have suggested these scopes:

    Hawke Nite-Eye Digital 6-24x50 10X ½ Mil Dot £179.99 Uttings

    Nikko Stirling Platinum Nighteater 30mm IR 6-24x56 £194.99 Uttings

    MTC Optics Viper 6-24x56 IR £269.99 Uttings

    I'm not sure if I want to or can afford to spend over £200 but if there's a huge difference in quality I may be able to stretch it, I just want a good scope which will do all the above well and more importantly it needs to last!

    Would there be a better scope which I haven't mentioned or which of the above would you go for?

    Many thanks in advance for any advice!
     
  2. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    Les power, less magnification ratio and smaller objective lens.

    Is it pitch black in your clubs range? If it is lit, why do you need 56mm objective - and with a high magnification ratio the optical design needs to be absolutely top notch or you will lose more than half the light. That is why so many scopes, good ones, only have a 3x magnification ration (3x-9x is a 3x mag ratio, as is a 4-12). It is very expensive to make scopes transmit the same amount of light with greater mag ratios - so you get a dark target picture. At that range, 16x is as much as you need. If you were doing benchrest at 50 yards, maybe 24x would be an advantage, coupled with ultra fine crosshairs, that will be a hinderence when you go out hunting.
     
  3. eagle2508

    eagle2508 Well-Known Member

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    I'm new to this and the scopes I put above are the ones that a couple guys recommended, I'm unsure which scope would be best for my needs.

    The targets which are used are pretty small and at 12x mag at 30yards it's hard to tell the difference between the two centre circles, so I suppose that is why they recommended 24x mag scopes...

    is there any particular scope you would recommend Accuspell?
     
  4. secretagentmole

    secretagentmole Low down, dirty and quiet...

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    I like Hawke optics, I find them better suited to my eyes than anything by MTC or Nikko. The only other scope I got on so well with was a cheap Chinese Tasco thing.
     
  5. kermitboy1

    kermitboy1 Banned

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    I agree with the above. You will get a decent scope for your money with a Hawke. Not sure that i would go top end, as the mid priced scopes seem to perform just as good. The main advice i would give, is to get the largest optic you can afford for the light gathering abilities. The Panorama is a good option, may be spelt somewhat different, but i have one on my HW and its a lovely reticle and works very nice. Plus Deben trading are so helpful should you need bits. Go Hawke. KB1
     
  6. eagle2508

    eagle2508 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing that put me off the Panorama range is the max mag is 12, I understand where people are coming from but the targets I'm shooting at are just too small for this mag, so I should go with the Hawke Night-Eye Dig? I've looked through the Stirling and Hawke and both look nice but I have to admit I thought the build quality of Hawke optics seems great for the money. I just don't know if the MTC Viper is worth all that extra cash

    i just want to make sure I don't get the wrong scope as it needs to last and do everything I need, it's a tall order I know getting a scope that does a few different things but If I can find something close it'll make my day :)
     
  7. leaky5

    leaky5 Donator

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    I was in a similar situation. I was using a 3-9x40 Hawke with standard cross hair, I really like the scope but was finding it a bit limiting. Down at Pete's Airgun Farm at 55yds I was managing to hit 40mm spinners most of the time and 30mm ones with a bit of luck. The problem was that with the standard cross hair I had no refence point for hold over.

    I umm'ed and arr'ed about various mag scopes and objective sizes and in the end went for a Hawke 4-12x40 Panorama with 1/2 mildot. I am hoping this will help me and as soon as I can get a day off work I will try and spend some time down there and set it up correctly, really need to do this before the Wellies shot down at Springfield in Febuary.
     
  8. Lucky Luciano

    Lucky Luciano Member

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    I like MTC Viper connects, they feel strange at first with your eye so very close up but after a few go's with one other scopes then feel strange by being so far away!

    I have got used to them so much that I have three with the SCB2 reticule!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  9. kermitboy1

    kermitboy1 Banned

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    I keep meaning to have a look through these scopes. I would assume that the wide field of view would enhance the speed at which you can sight your target and place the cross/h in position, rather than having to hunt around for that target before it bolts. Is that the case. KB1
     
  10. clbarclay

    clbarclay Engaging Member

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    If your struggling with x12 mag at 30 yds then I would question whether its the lack of magnification that is the problem or the quality of the glass and how clearly you can see the magnified image. Also how well the optics suit you own eyes. Its very easy to advertise a scopes magnification (does bigger always = better?), but optical quality is much more difficult to quantify.

    Has anyone at the your local club got Bushnell, Nikon, Vortex or similar scopes you could have a look through for comparison?
    Set at the same magnification, there is a vast difference between the vortex diamondback (just under £150) I now use and the cheap BSA scope I started with. How big is the centre circles of the targets? on maximum x9 magnification I can see to aim within a 5mm dot at 30 yds, which is more accurate than I can usually shoot.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  11. eagle2508

    eagle2508 Well-Known Member

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    You could be right or maybe it's just my eyes lol I think I'll pop down to the club tonight and see what others have then a trip to a shop to look through a few.

    thanks for the help guys
     
  12. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    I wouldn't spend the extra on MTC - they are the same lenses, from the same factory as Nikko Stirling - better tubes and whistles and bells, but the same glass!

    As said above, I have a Vortex Diamondback 4-12x40 with AO (that is important, otherwise it will be set for 100 yards target focus for centrefire use). The AO version is an Adjustable Objective - it means you can focus it like a camera lens, turn the front ring for the target range you are shooting. It comes down to 15 yards (or is it 10 - without going to look). At 12x I can see both sides of a .20 pellet hole from 30 yards and I can still use a single pellet hole as the target at 35 yards. Just how small is your 10 ring? I could shoot a pimpernel happily with the Vortex Diamondback. I would love to know where he got his for £150 - I had to pay £212 for mine! Even so, it is a cracking scope for the money and they do more powerful scopes, but with centrefire rifle parallax focussing.

    There are a whole range of scopes you can use for target shooting - it was the fact you also wanted to go hunting with it. SO think of the extra weight of a big optic, lugging it around, the slower speed of target acquisition - target shooting at the club the bits of paper don't get up and run away. Out in the field I always work on having just 3 seconds to get the shot away from first sighting any quarry. The exception being roosting pigeons - but then the light isn't great. One or other is going to have live with the compromise.
     
  13. 177

    177 Donator

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    There are only a relatively small number of large objective lens scopes that actually deliver on the promise of "bigger lens, brighter scope".

    Most of the x50 and x56 scopes fall well short of a good x40, x42 or x44 scope, unless you start paying significant amounts of money.

    Target shooting is a different set of problems to hunting.

    A friend of mine mainly does target shooting at a local club and range but he also goes out for the odd rabbit or pigeon here and there, usually in good light. He shoots with a Hawke Airmax EV 3-9x40 AO with a MAP6 ret and he does very well with it, especially given its £70-odd price tag. His brother uses a Hawke Airmax EV 4-12x40 AO and, again, he absolutely loves it. They both shoot Air Arms S400 rifles in .177 and .22 respectively and they can group with the best of them, even out past 50 yards.

    I've owned a few Hawke Sport HD scopes over the last couple of years that came in on guns I've traded and I can honestly say that the 3-9x50 and 4-12x50 I had weren't as good as the 2-7x32 or the 3-9x40, not that I am recommending them for your purposes, but it does illustrate a point.

    Bigger is not always better when it comes to rifle scopes.

    I really don't like my Hawke Panorama 3-9x50 but two of my friends have the Hawke Panorama EV 4-12x40 IR AO and the Hawke Panorama EV 3-9x40 IR AO and both are much, much nicer than my 3-9x50. So much so that they caused me to revisit my poor opinion of Panorama scopes and reluctantly agree that they are actually well worth looking at.

    Have you considered the Hawke Varmint SF 2.5-10x44 ?

    It's a pretty impressive scope with a half mil dot ret (loads of aim points), a useful range of magnification and a very useful side focus for parallax adjustment. From memory I think my mate's goes down to 15 yards on the sidewheel for parallax adjustment, so plenty good enough for even the shortest air rifle ranges, and I think he mentioned about £120 new.

    Its 10x maximum zoom might not be quite enough under some target shooting circumstances but 10x with a 44mm front end might swing it, and you can't argue the usefulness of the lower magnification for hunting purposes. There is also a 4-16x44 and a 6-24x44 version of the Hawke Varmint SF, so possibly more options to add to the table with a pretty useful feature set ?

    I think whatever you get is going to have to be a trade off since you want to solve two very different sets of requirements with one product.

    All I would say is that the performance gap is pretty low between most of the entry level up to £200 stuff, with only a handful of products that really stand out for one reason or another.

    Listen, look, learn, and try and make an informed decision based on requirements. Don't be blinded by the big numbers being bandied around. A sniper instructor in America summed scopes up beautifully when he said to our small group "I'd take clarity over objective lens size or even magnification every time". You're going to spend a lot of time looking through it so make sure it's crystal clear and doesn't flare, white out, or blur too heavily around the edges.

    Good luck !
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  14. eagle2508

    eagle2508 Well-Known Member

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    177 thanks for the detailed response, it does make perfect sense to have clarity over mag or obj, in the past when I was in my local store I was shown some stunning scopes and the mag was no more than 9 and the clarity was superb! The price tag however wasn't lol

    I'm a photographer so understand the difference between optic quality and in most cases you get what you pay for, unfortunately for me most of my money is tied up in camera equipment but that's where I make my living, shooting will only ever be a hobby so doubt I'll go too crazy... But who knows lol it's addictive!

    One of the guys at the club has a stunning Daystate Airwolf with about £1.5k of glass sat on top, it really is beautiful but I don't think I would ever want to invest that type of money in one rifle/scope, maybe if I win the lottery! :D

    One scope which has been recommended to me this morning by a friend:

    http://www.hawkeoptics.co.uk/hawke-eclipse-30-sf-4-16x50.html

    I think I really need to get in to a decent shop and try a few, I'll stay away from MTC I think and stay with some of the more economical brands, Hawke/Nikko Stirling.

    A bit more weight wouldn't bother me too much, I currently shoot from a bench and if out hunting could live with a little extra weight.

    i would like a little more mag but need to try a few out before making a final informed decision.

    thanks again, you've been really helpful
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  15. clbarclay

    clbarclay Engaging Member

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    Mine is the 3-9x40 without AO.

    I didn't know about the awkwardness of reparalaxing the non AO version when I got I it, but I've left the lens screwed out a couple of turns to get it down to 27yds and its been fine since, but not ideal. AO would be better, but my budget only just stretched as it was.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  16. 177

    177 Donator

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    One vital piece of information that I didn't ask is:

    What are you using now, and which gun will it be going on ?

    This is really important since some scopes will throw a rifle right out of whack, others just won't fit without causing all kinds of issues from scope height/eye alignment right through to obscuring access to loading or even preventing magazine cycling.
     
  17. 177

    177 Donator

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  18. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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  19. 177

    177 Donator

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    Ask me what's sitting on the desk next to me as I type this :D

    Ask me what's on it's way in the post right now (one is never enough :rolleyes: )

    I can feel a totally justified "ner, ner, na, ner, ner" coming on :mao:
     
  20. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    NOW THEN, you are going to need a good rifle to put it on.......!
     

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