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Question What exactly is wrong with BSA springers?

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by 300bhp/ton, Jan 12, 2016.

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  1. BiggaJ

    BiggaJ Donator

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    I am enjoying this thread therefore, I would hate it to get deleted or closed.

    Healthy debate is good and dare I say it, there are many many topics that have been covered over and over again so it's not just BSA springers. The one that always comes up is the 'which is best' thread but I like these too as things do change as do opinions as we get new members joining the forum which is also a good thing.

    Would it be possible to go a little easier here ... I have not read into any of this that there is an agenda coming, I have been wrong in the past though.
     
  2. nav2009

    nav2009 Donator

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    Troll comes to mind.
     
  3. themadspread

    themadspread Donator

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    I remember back in the 70,s when you got your first airsporter and at the time it was the dogs b******s and the hw 77 came on the seen and blew it away and I think that was the last time anybody bragged about having a bsa springer
     
  4. Scott

    Scott Moderated user

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    Every time I log in here I check the banned members log expecting to see our hero's name on it…
    OP I fear that you are quickly running through your 9 lives and shall soon become another lined out poster.

    Lighten up a bit, a least look interested in the opinions that you ask for from the members of this forum.
     
  5. 177

    177 Donator

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    As far as I know the only difference is the power plant - but that's not necessarily 100%

    From a manufacturing perspective I can't see Gamo springing the investment to run separate production for the gas ram powered rifle - I imagine the differences, if there are any, will be confined to the power plant.

    Keep another point in mind - I previously commented on the eminently suited (to UK power limits) internals of the HW99s. Everything else (more or less) is in different degrees of being less suitable for our power levels. Gas rams can be very aggressive and often require counterweights to offset the savage shot cycle. Again, concentrating on UK power limits, this presents a series of problems to overcome which most fail miserably at.

    Example:

    HW95 shoots best slightly shortstroked to reduce swept volume, piston travel, etc. It can also do very will with a significantly lighter piston and a whole bunch of other stuff.

    Fast forward to a stock rifle with a larger set of internals, factory standard heavier piston, driven by something generating more power than it needs to due to superfluous mass, and...

    It's no coincidence that most of the nicest shooting air rifles have smaller internals.

    My 30-odd year old Theoben Siroco, driven by a low pressure gas ram:

    [​IMG]

    It can be stripped, serviced, re-inflated after doing so, etc

    Compare (if you can) to today's sealed units, produced for coppers, often with poorly produced castings or non-metal parts that can't be worked on.

    The Mk7 Meteor was IMHO an attempt to answer the perceived requirement for that model to reach current UK limits for power. I have owned loads of the older Meteors and I like them for what they are. I personally dislike the Mk7 for a whole raft of very good (to me) reasons which may or may not be relevant to others.

    Compared price-wise to counterpart products from other manufacturers it's nothing worth writing home about.

    Do I own a BSA Lightning ?

    Nope.

    Have I ?

    Yes, several, and I've worked on more.

    Each time I hoped it would be 'the one'.

    None of them ever were, compared to many other alternatives within the same price bracket.

    We can all choose where our cash ends up.

    If you can find a BSA Lightning with a decent barrel assembly, work on it to get its shot cycle sorted out, and accept the limitations of its trigger, you can expect decent accuracy.

    Finding one is the trick.

    I come down to simple requirements analysis and cost benefit analysis.

    What do I need - usually very different to what I want :rolleyes:

    When does the work required to make it useful and usable become prohibitive ?

    Can I live with the limitations of its build and design ?

    We all answer these criteria differently.

    I like nice shooting, easy-to-own, air rifles - it's no coincidence that I don't own a BSA Lightning. After having played with so many, I made an informed decision not to...

    If you want feedback where every comment or claim is backed by evidence of a sort that you can accept, well, life is full of disappointments.

    I usually find that my word is good enough.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
  6. Alex.B

    Alex.B Keyboard Hero

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    Great post 177 :up:,
     
  7. Batz

    Batz Busy Member

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    I've shot the Benjamin Trail XL and Crossman Venum both gas ram power plants.

    Both rifles were of low quality and not something I would recommend.

    If its lower $$$ how about a Hatsan springer? I think it will do better than all
    the Chinese mass produced rifles.
     
  8. nav2009

    nav2009 Donator

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    Super post 177. My sirocco was a good gun and it was a keeper but I needed the money at the time, I noticed that the Taunus and Fenman in later models were a little less snappy when I tried them than earlier Sirocco's. Did Theoben do a little more work on the later models so less compression was needed in the gas ram do you think?
    My thoughts on the matter about gas rams are this, if you can take a break barrel such as a Sirocco and develop 21fpe with it using a gas ram then why not use the exact same principle to compress air into a cylinder in one single stroke and valve it into a TP like a PCP. Afterall, the compressed air in the gas ram when let loose can drive the ram rod and the piston no probs.
     
  9. Meteor62

    Meteor62 Major Poster

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    as my forum name suggests I do have a soft spot for the meteor. The old meteor that is. To me the new model is just another gun out of another country that bares the same name. Was the older meteor better? God knows I haven't tried a new one. Was the original meteor any good ? Honestly ? No not really. Try shooting what was BSA s flagship rifle the BSA airsporter and you will realise in the cold light of day it was a crock of 5hite too in my opinion. I would choose a meteor over an airsporter which struggles to make 9 ft lb that the meteor was capable of. The Mercury was a better gun in my opinion but compared to what the Germans were offering, it too was pretty dire in comparison. Some people will find this hard to swallow and I am battening down the hatches in anticipation of all the fan base but if we are all honest we only like the BSA's as a lot of us were introduced to shooting with one and what you really see is people reminiscing about the good old days and that super dooper BSA that drilled holes through anything.

    Having said all that my mate a very discerning shooter that shoots everything from .177 to full bore rifles as a professional pest controller and deer hunter and has BSA r10 HW 100 etc swears by his BSA lightning springer even though I tell him everyone else says they're a load of poo. Why ? Because he don't read the airgun forums and so doesn't see any negativity on the rifle (apart from me).
     
  10. nav2009

    nav2009 Donator

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    A lot of people had a variant of the meteor as their first gun but I didn't, I had the Relum tornado because my brother had a meteor and I wasn't a fan. Mercury was a great gun and so was the Airsporter and the Stutzen is the often forgotten about.
    Had a Supersport for a short while and gas rammed it then offloaded it because the trigger was just ridiculously rubbish. Never bothered with em after that, PCP range seems to have got their rep back on track but they can keep their springers for me.
     
  11. rabbitwrecker

    rabbitwrecker The Tree Hunter...

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    I wanted to post a sensible answer to the OP based on personal experience and observations - as I have on similar threads from this author - but what's the point? I have no 'links' to my findings and opinions, I have no hard proof to lay on the table - so obviously my input is utterly worthless to him. I do not have any formal qualifications in engineering or gunsmithing, but I do have more than 40 years of experience with airguns which I'm happy to freely share as honestly as I can.

    I'm actually beginning to find these threads depressing - not what I want to see on this generally happy forum. So, congratulations Mr Ton-Up, you've succeeded in pi**ing someone off, (which can take some doing in my case). I now suspect that this was your intention anyway, so point to you.....
     
  12. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

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    I started writing out a long, complex answer to the OP's question based on my ownership of four BSA Shitenings, debating the merits (such as they are) and demerits of the model, paying particular attention to what makes it such an 'outstanding' rifle. I then deleted it, because there's only so much piddling into the wind that I'm going to carry out before my e-trousers are soaked, my boots full and my time wasted.
     
  13. stevemandm

    stevemandm Honorary Member

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  14. nav2009

    nav2009 Donator

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    You'll get your head chewed off lol.
    This guy has now done three threads asking for advice then bitten the head off everyone who has offered up advise. I wonder what his next offering will be?
    Because of the aggression and general sneckyness towards members, something tells me this guy has been here before and has an agenda and this will only end in the usual way. Might be wrong, but thats how it looks.
     
  15. Scott

    Scott Moderated user

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    Can the mods not just line him out for being a Richard Cranium towards other members including them, the way the do with all the other unsociables.
     
  16. That hurts

    That hurts Barely Active

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    I too started to draft a suitable reply to Mr.3Sqillionhorsefartsperton, but couldn't think of two suitable words to summarise the part from Genesis 1:28 that goes, 'Be fruitful and multiply' ... or words to that effect ;)
     
  17. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

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    Found this, and though that it applies quite well to how Gamo go through the genesis, design, advertising and selling of BSA springers:

    http://xk9.com/images/pix/X09/BS.png
     
  18. stevemandm

    stevemandm Honorary Member

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    [​IMG]

    ......... ?
     
  19. bf95

    bf95 Donator

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    Where do we find such a magical log?! I'd like to see this :D
     
  20. monsta41

    monsta41 Donator

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