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Webley Excel .22 spring issue

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by axel, Jan 11, 2014.

  1. axel

    axel Member

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    Hi!

    I have a problem, my Webley Excel .22 (bought in sweden in 1990, it has 14,5ft/lbs original according to swedish law at the time) needs a new spring. Chambers Gunspares is the only one selling "original parts" and the one they are selling doesnt work. I tried but when fitted the gun wont cock, and it makes a grinding noise when compressing. I started to cut of turns from the spring, but when the gun could be cocked there was less power than with my old spring that gives, about 8,5ft/lbs.

    Chambers did sell three other springs that worked for the Excel until last year when they replaced them with one that doesnt fit my rifle. The Original spring is 220mm long, and the new one is 255mm.

    The only alterantives left is OX that has a spring the exactly right size, but everyone says they are crap. Is it the high power that makes them so bad? could i get one and cut a couple of turns of it to reduce the power to my goal of atleast 12ft/lbs and expect to have a nice airrifle to shoot with?

    //Axel
     
  2. seakingfixer

    seakingfixer Engaging Member

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  3. Dunkman

    Dunkman Posting Addict

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    Add some pre-load to the cropped spring.
     
  4. oliver13

    oliver13 Donator

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    I put an Ox spring in a gun once & wasn't impressed, it seemed a lot rougher & there didn't seem to be any extra power, after a week I took it out to swap it with an ordinary spring & found the square section wire was grinding away the inside of the piston.

    Why not look for a Titan spring of the right size, even ordinary ones have a tendency towards FAC power out of the pack - they usually need shortening for ordinary UK use.
    I would think the best thing to do is decide on the dimensions you want, then use that as a buying guide.

    http://www.airrifleshop.co.uk/AirgunSpares/AS_SSTK_Titan.htm
     
  5. axel

    axel Member

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    Thanx for the replys!

    The only Titan spring that possible could fit is the No 7, and it has the same dimensions that the "original OEM" that didnt fit and felt bad with alot of twanging. I would really like a MS064 from gunspares, that has the same messurements as my original one, 230mm and 30 turns, but they dont sell it anymore. OX has one with those dimensions, and the "square section" looks just like the flattend end of my OEM spring.

    It seems that most people that had problems with OX had it because of it giving too high power, but if i get an OX and meassure the velocity with a chrono and cut it down until i reach 20j(design power of the rifle) i could work...
     
  6. oliver13

    oliver13 Donator

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    Just keep an eye on any wear, I've heard of them eating the inside of guns before, but people have used them successfully as well.
    Maybe fitting a sleeve would be a good idea, it would probably make it smoother & it keeps the spring grease where it belongs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
  7. ricky

    ricky Engaging Member

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    Why not drop steve from Vmac an email, very helpfull guy
     
  8. thisisdonald

    thisisdonald Engaging Member

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    Jim maccari at aur rifle headquarters does a spring matching service... you send him all the dimensions and he sees what he has in stock for you.
     
  9. axel

    axel Member

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    I thought i would try a Titan XS no.7, its too long and will be needed to be shortend but hopefully there will be enough punch left in it to be better than my old one. I did some testing today with the old worn out spring and got 30 shots with .22 Milbro TR and 30 with H&N Field target trophy at mean 541fps, Milbro beeing slightly faster. Since the cleaning and greesing the rifle now feels very smooth, im a bit sad to loose that to the twanging of a Titan spring, if it doesnt work our i will have a look at the alternatives you wrote.

    Its a bit tricky to find a spring that fits, since there was two different versions of the rifle in sweden in .22, one 660pfs pre -92(my rifle is this one) and one 460fps version after -92. Then there is probably a UK version with something in between, and mayby a german version with less.


    //Axel
     
  10. oliver13

    oliver13 Donator

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    Here's the link to an article by Steve Pope on his spring shortening method:
    http://www.air-rifle-tuning.com/v-mach/Reading_files/AS01.pdf

    The Titan springs have some kind of low friction coating on, when it begins to burn off I suspect the smoke is a bit toxic - it's probably best not to breath it...
     
  11. axel

    axel Member

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    Now i fitted the Titan XS no.7 to my Webley Excel .22, its no where nere the original 660fps, but its pretty constant at about 560fps. The spring needed no shortening, and has no twaning what so ever strangely enough. It did how ever not improve my fps more than perhaps 30fps, and with the cost of lost accuracy. I changed back to the original spring.

    I dont understand why, but this is a mysteri to me...
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2014
  12. axel

    axel Member

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    With a new spring and new seals, what could be the reson for lack of performance? the only thing i can think off is an air leak, but i have inspected the whole mechanism and didnt find any. Does anyone have any sudgestions?
     
  13. axel

    axel Member

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    It could be that my sono-chronometer app is showing me false readings. I shot a diabol into my bullet catcher(thick metal plate) from 12yards distance, and it looks like this:

    DSC_0666.jpg

    Is this consistent with 520fps?
     
  14. oliver13

    oliver13 Donator

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    That does look about right, I'd say your Chrono. was accurate.

    Have you tried firing it with some tissue paper over the breech? if it gets blown off your breech seal is poor.
    You could try a few washers in the piston to pack the spring to increase the power, it makes the piston heavier which is not always a good thing though.

    I'm at a loss myself, I've always found Titan springs to be very adequate, usually too adequate - I don't suppose there's a chance you could have got the wrong spring somehow, like a mix up with the packaging?
     
  15. axel

    axel Member

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    I took the rifle appart and looked at the piston gasket, it must have been damaged when i fitted it. Hopefully this is why i lack the performance, have orderd a new seal.

    DSC_0669.jpg
     
  16. axel

    axel Member

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    I just refitted the old used pston gasket and did some test fireing with good results, H&N FTT .22 gave me 660fps and Milbro TR .22 gave me 610fps. Results that i am sattisfied with, the low results gave me a headache :)

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]Titan XS no. 7[/TD]
    [TD]16/1[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Hastighet(m/s)[/TD]
    [TD]Ammunition[/TD]
    [TD]Vikt(g)[/TD]
    [TD]Energy(ftlbs)[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]650[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]13.60[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]587[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]11.10[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]660[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]14.01[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]597[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]11.48[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]640[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]13.19[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]591[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]11.23[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]657[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]13.87[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]653[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]13.73[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]644[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]13.32[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]657[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]13.87[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]653[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]13.73[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]650[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]13.60[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]657[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]13.87[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]667[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]14.30[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]673[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]14.58[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]660[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]14.01[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]663[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]14.15[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]670[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]14.44[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]657[/TD]
    [TD]H&N FTT[/TD]
    [TD]0.95[/TD]
    [TD]13.87[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Average[/TD]
    [TD]653.4[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD]13.7351589296[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
     
  17. Meteor62

    Meteor62 Major Poster

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    Result!
     
  18. axel

    axel Member

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    Now the airrifle is fitted with a "red dot" scope, i have narrowed down the accuarcy to better than 40mm on 10m distance standing.without support The iron sights had to come off as they were in the way of the red dot.

    we.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  19. axel

    axel Member

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    I did some tests with different ammunition and found that with h&n ftt the shots end up off center compaired to milbro tr and h&n sport.

    I first believed that i had hit the sights and disalligned it, but moore tests confirmed that the trajectory is differenrt with hn ftt.

    I did the test from 12yards standing without support. Is this normal?

    Hn ftt to the left in the picture.

    [​IMG]
     

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