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Warco Or Warco

Discussion in 'Technical' started by v1ktor, Nov 20, 2021.

  1. Balders

    Balders Busy Member

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  2. ajohn

    ajohn Chewing Things Over

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    I see those as a do you want to use it or spend lots of time modifying and making bits for it.

    I have a D4000E Mini Lathe. No turning power problem with those but it is still a mini lathe.TBH in terms of the 2 machines mentioned following usual rules about power and rigidity etc I'd say neither but budget rules that out.

    :) Anyway I am always fascinated on which choice people make in the end. All I try and do is mention aspects that really do matter. Smaller cuts just means work takes longer and is only a small part of the story.
     
  3. paj

    paj Posting Addict

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    Yes.
     
    shauny likes this.
  4. Bezzer

    Bezzer Moving on

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  5. v1ktor

    v1ktor Posting Addict

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    @Bezzer. Interesting thread that, started in 2018 and was still being added to early 2021.

    Pt2 suggests that maximum bed length may be the way forward.
    So lathe mass and bed length???????????
    Within my constraints that leaves, equivalents considered, Warco supermini or WM180.

    I was initially looking at the supermini, however, my leaning is still now toward the WM180.
    I judge, having read the input, that twice the mass is more useful than an extra 50mm bed length.
    Offering significantly better rigidity and ultimately a better end product.

    @Balders. I had already had a browse of that website. The WM180 does have a huge following and masses of suggestions and instruction for improvements.

    I'll be calling a few numbers and asking a few questions this week
     
    Blackmax likes this.
  6. Balders

    Balders Busy Member

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    I got my model number wrong before, it's a MX-210V
    1. Andy's machines is a good source for info on Chinese mini lathes. The WM180 certainly has a cult following.
     
  7. ajohn

    ajohn Chewing Things Over

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    There is one kicking about with an MT4 spindle as well for 1" through the spindle. Amadeal produced a long bed mini at one point even selling the bed on its own for upgrades as well. Didn't last. Not sure why. Maybe a step to far. I'd expect 18" centres to weigh 100kg at least.

    LOL Some I have used. All can do good accurate work

    Peatol.gif
    I fully kitted that one out from new. Very very accurately aligned but capable of taking 0.1" cuts on 1" ms bar with ease but the heads distort. Few thou taper over several inches.

    unimat-3.jpg
    That one came kitted out reasonably bought used. Bearings replaced.
    hobbymatMD65.jpg
    That one needed the saddle setting correctly which is a little tricky.

    Then a mistake. Good finish but alignment - very very Oh dear on all axis. Sold it to some one who wanted to shorten bolts. Car restorer and wanted his customers to see it as well.
    LatheMill.jpg

    The lathe I can at currently get at is a 2hp mini. usual sizes. More powerful than my Boxford

    All needed the slide gibs setting correctly. It's unusual to find lathes that are.

    What gets me with many of the lathes that are around is people buy them thinking they can screwcut but no indicator which means reversing the machine to get back to the start again after each cut. Not always on many imperial thread but metric is another mater. Also ones that can cut imperial and metric but the screw cutting indicator can not do both.
     
  8. v1ktor

    v1ktor Posting Addict

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    I spoke to the sales man at Warco.

    Next stock of WM180 due around Jan/Feb 2022????

    Lathes around WM180, WM210 size appear to be almost non-existent at the moment.

    Looking around at alternatives. Excluding Ebay specials - too many horror stories.
     
  9. Balders

    Balders Busy Member

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    Try ringing Chester tools and see if they do a similar machine
     
  10. v1ktor

    v1ktor Posting Addict

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    Thanks, already checked.

    DB7S is £1050 + £54 delivery.

    I can get a Warco supermini with DRO for that money.

    They currently have the DB8S reduced to £1150 + £54 delivery.

    I have a budget set and both of those exceeed that budget.
     
  11. ajohn

    ajohn Chewing Things Over

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    On ebay I believe Harry is Amadeal. I've only bought tooling off him but have never been disappointed. Wish I could say the same about ArcEuro but they are another source of these sizes of lathe and other than the baby lathe could well be ok. Being fair on tooling the price has to be considered. Harry when he has it seems to to do better.

    Budget - I rather doubt that prices will reduce. More likely to increase.
     
  12. ajohn

    ajohn Chewing Things Over

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    There is also Excel in Coventry. They market stuff that comes via a German imported who brands them.
     
  13. paj

    paj Posting Addict

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    Hi ajohn. Do you know anything about the relative quality of these as they seem a little dear to me?
     
  14. v1ktor

    v1ktor Posting Addict

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    Toolco - now defunct
    Excel - not heard of them until mentioned
    Warco - no stock for months
    Amadeal - varying reviews
    Chester - same lathes as elsewhere but pricier
    and Vevor? I can't find a physical store and they appear to directly import the Chinese lathes at competitive prices but much variety in the reviews.

    The Chester DB8VS appears a good buy at the moment but still only has a 21mm spindle bore and a weight of 110kgs. I couldn't move that around my workshop - should I need to do so.
    Amadeal has the WBL1835 but weight only 40ish kg
    Warco has supermini - similar to WBL1835
    Vevor has choices . The MX-210V, a WM180 without dial thread indicator, appeals but the reviews indicate good or bad with no middle ground.

    No rush - still searching.
     
  15. ajohn

    ajohn Chewing Things Over

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    No I don't. I did hear a serious tale of wow with one of their baby lathes in Australia on the web. It needed a very skilled machine tool fitter to sort it out but I've heard of grief from all of those particular models who ever supplies them. On some machines they claim to season the castings - leave them lying around to stress relieve before doing anything with them. A problem with German companies though - they were the first to start mentioning spindle nose run out. It's a bit of a con really.

    Castings do stress relieve over time but can't say that I have ever come across accounts of any of the main suppliers machines doing something serious over the sort of time that takes.

    Given what the machines cost there will be variations on areas like turning bars that are dead parallel also facing very slight concave as lathes should. They often spec spindle run out but from a turning point of view it's not the whole story. I have heard of some one upgrading via Warco. Ist lathe did turn dead parallel. The replacement was slightly out. It's a fact that many people on the UK's model engineering forum buy Warco. You may find comments on other makes in posts on there. Including that baby lathe I mentioned. I don't hang out on there any more and haven't for a long time now. It's rather commercial and think I'll leave that comment just like that.

    Lighter lathes need setting up correctly especially on the cross and compound or top slide as it's called in the USA. There should be some resistance at the handles but not too much as it will wear the lead screw nuts out. Best way to do that on a new lathe is to remove the lead screws and push them about by hand adjusting the gibs for an even pressure throughout their movement. It needs doing carefully as the grub screws aren't that fine. The lock nuts need using on each adjustment as well to pull the screws back firmly. Expect to have to try several times. Get some slideway oil. It make a fair bit of difference and is designed specifically for this use even on the bed. Not much is needed just a fine smear and it should be redone from time to time. Hopefully the bearings come correctly adjusted. I use bearing heat when they need adjusting. Run flat out for 10mins. It's usually possible to get a finger in the spindle directly under the rear bearing. It should feel very warm. Move up to real big lathes and the bearings will be intended to run at 100C+ but all sorts of other aspects come into that. It will take them in the order of 20min to fully warm up. Buy a used lathe and in all probability it will be too late. My boxford for instance. Bearings well out and slides could be adjusted but if I wind the cross slide out a long way it gets a little tight.

    Greasing spindle bearings - it is sometime possible to do it by pushing old stuff out. Not sure what can be done on these ranges of lathes. I always use moly grease for that. A high speed one.
     
  16. paj

    paj Posting Addict

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    Thanks for that ajohn. Let me give you my take on these "lo-cost" lathes which quite clearly appear to be a number of rebadged ranges made up from a number of essentially identical lathes, with probably the biggest difference being the prices. I have heard tell that some of them are fettled by importer or retailer before final sale, if so, all well and good. However, I feel the wider situation is that these lathes are made to a price and therefore may vary in quality over a wide margin and will often require full setting up and minor fettling out of the box. As with other things there will be nightmares but once correctly adjusted then in general, for bottom end hobby lathes, they will mostly adequately perform to most hobbyist's requirements. All lathes are set up to face concave and you will have a job noticing it, face the same amount convex and nothing will fit together. Similarly you don't need exacting parallelism when the vast bulk of your jobs are less than 2 or 3 inches long.
     
  17. Balders

    Balders Busy Member

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    I'd told you up there that I've got the mx210v
    The first control board only had a min speed of 130rpm ish. Too fast for threading. They (solarjean on eBay) got me another board. After about 9 months it went pop. They offered to replace that foc but I'd have to pay £45 postage from China. It was the IGBIT that had gone, £4 or so, easy enough.
    I have purchased a KB board 2nd hand, brilliant upgrade.
    I've had to fettle the lathe a lot. Mainly burrs and aligning stuff using shims (John Smith's cans)
    As you say, there's no thread dial. Just keep the leadscrew engaged.
    It was half the price of the warco, pays yer money, takes yer choice....
     
  18. vonbeck

    vonbeck Keyboard Hero

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    Only one lathe worth having, Dean Smith and Grace you might need a bigger shed though

    .
     
  19. ajohn

    ajohn Chewing Things Over

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    I believe outfits like Warco claim to check them. How well pass. Fettling - not aware of any of that. From comments I have seen at odd time all from the usual suppliers are similar and fairly good especially considering what lathes are expected to be able to do these days. Super precision is yesteryear really.

    Headstock bearing adjustment is a tricky subject as too tight will wreck them. Boxford use turning torque, simple string around a chuck or faceplate and a weight. While it may work on a brand new ones it certainly doesn't on a worn one as a number of people have found.

    Concave facing - I'd expect all to do that but if done on purpose a cheap solution is to relax the max accounting for other factors that can have an effect. I've not seen comments where they haven't done this but have to wonder if some of the people using them know that they should do this. I have seen comments about them facing out of square but in the correct way.
     
  20. v1ktor

    v1ktor Posting Addict

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    Let me just check for that spare £m I left in my pocket last week. b****r, must have spent it already.

    Thanks for the heads up anyway.
     
    paj likes this.

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