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Advice Vortex crossfire vs diamondback

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by tomsteebs, Jan 19, 2014.

  1. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    Hi,

    think i've decided on one of the 4-12x40/50 ao dh bdc models of either the crossfire or diamondback.


    also looking at bushnell legends ao mildot.

    now what are peoples thoughts on these 2 as they are £80 apart in price?


    thankyou in advance

    tom
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2014
  2. mikemjm

    mikemjm Donator

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    I ve had a 2 diamond backs and the quality of glass is very high, not had a cross fire but I have read that the drop in quality between the two is noticeable.
     
  3. 177

    177 Donator

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    I've had both, by accident.

    I waited 7 weeks for a Diamondback that never arrived and Riflecraft finally sent me a Crossfire instead, which I returned :rolleyes:

    On its own merits the Crossfire is actually a decent scope.

    The trouble is that the Diamondback is light and day better in all respects.

    The Diamondback ret is thinner than the Bushnell Legends, assuming you're talking about a 5-15x40 or bigger. Some of the Multi-X Legends have a thin ret but, for the most part, they are a little thicker than the Diamondback.

    I actually like that since the ret shows up so much better when using digital night vision.

    A more salient point might be the BDC implementation on the Diamondback - the dots are really meant for 'proper' rifles so they are a shade too far apart to be as useful as they could be to air rifles, calibre, pellet and FPE etc depending.

    I'd reluctantly have to admit that the Diamondback is even better in low light than the Legend, but the Legend is, for me, more appropriate to air rifles.

    That's possibly influenced by me being a massive Legend fan, but there's no denying no matter how much better the Diamondback might be optically, its BDC aim points are a little less useful IHMO

    You can make them work though (I have), it's just fair to mention it because some folks are totally unprepared for it when they get one.

    If you've ever looked through a Nikon Prostaff BDC, the Diamondback is better to look through, but the BDC points are further apart.

    If you haven't, that's a pretty useless example :rolleyes:

    Good luck !
     
  4. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    Cheers for the info, I have looks through a prostaff and found it very nice, but only got rid as was after mildots or similar. I too thought the diamond back reticle aimpoints looked far apart and that this may be not much more useful than a duplex type reticle in the end. Essentially I'd be looking at the crossfire and Bushnell costing me the same amount, and then the diamond back being extra. But judging by your feedback, the Bushnell will be better suited.....
     
  5. 177

    177 Donator

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    I'd never put a Crossfire in anywhere near the same ball park as a Legend.

    Put it like this - I am lucky enough to have a bunch of guns and scopes - my main rig has a 5-15x40 AO mil dot Bushnell Legend on top and has done for ages.

    Every time I look at 'upgrading' it I come up short with something that gives a better combination of features for my hunting, without spending silly money. I can put something optically superior with better low light performance on, but its aim points are less useful to air rifles. I can put something with a ton of aim points on that offers poorer low light performance. Overall, I consider that a step back.

    So much depends on your gun/pellet/FPE and so on - it might be that your combo offers a better match to the Diamondback aim points than mine. Personally I find the Nikon Prostaff aim points much better for air rifles, but I may yet drop the Diamondback onto a .22LR or bigger and see if it comes into its own.

    My comments are not about one scope being better than another, so much as one scope offering a combined set of features for hunting with an air rifle, in my case, a .22 Logun Gladiator running JSB Exact Jumbo pellets at around 11.4 FPE

    On another gun and with a different pellet it might be a different story...

    Finally, just to muddy the waters still further, if I wanted something simpler and, crucially, smaller and lighter, I'd happily break out the BDC Prostaff.

    The Bushnell Legend 5-15x40 is massive by comparison, and the BDC Prostaff offers enough aim points to make it seriously useful on an air rifle...

    I leave my Legend 5-15x40 parked between 5x and 6x with the AO set to 30 yards and it never gets touched, ever.

    The Diamondback may pip the Legend and Prostaff in low light but both the Legend and Prostaff are, IMHO, a better air rifle match, in their respective different ways.

    As always, your mileage may vary ;)
     
  6. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    Size my main concern, but they are actually only 10grams heavier than a diamond back! But I think about 2" longer....
     
  7. clbarclay

    clbarclay Engaging Member

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    177, what size is your Diamondback and what did the BDC hold under marks work out at?

    The Vortex BDC reticles are nearly all the same MOA on max magnification, so a 4-12x wound down to say 6x would result in wider gaps than a 3-9x set at the same magnification.

    I'm using a 3-9x40 Diamondback BDC of a .22 Ultra. After a bit of playing about with chairgun to see what effect different magnifications and zero ranges had I've now reduced the zeroed range to 23yds and 5x magnification, the hold over marks work out near enough 30, 41, 50 and 60 yds. i've not yet confirmed the longest ranges (might do today as its calm), but they are beyond my hunting range anyway.

    I like that Vortex give the MOA dimensions for all reticles on their website. With my current scope and magnification the hold under marks work out at the equivalent of 0.8, 2.4, 4 and 5.9 mils, which bear in mind compared to a mil dot ret would only be 2, 4, 6 etc. on the same magnification.

    My one slight issue of the BDC ret on my scope is that when the light level gets very low I loose slight of the fine reticle first before it gets too dark to see through the scope. The smaller 1.75-5x32 BDC has the same hold under spacing, but thicker reticle lines.
     
  8. walker

    walker Busy Member

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    got me a 5-15x40 bushnell legend. very very good glass
    not used the other two.
     
  9. 177

    177 Donator

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    I've 3-9x40 and 4-12x40 Diamondback scopes.

    Everything depends on power, pellet and other factors as to whether you get useable distance to coincide with the BDC markers.

    The BDC markers on the Prostaff are closer and offer more useable and useful aim points to me - as I said previously, a different pellet/calibre/power could easily change that.

    On one of my .22 springers the Nikon Prostaff DBC markers are more or less bang on at 5 yard increments - you can't really get any more useful than that IMHO, although if the same scope was on a .177 it would be a very different story.

    Messing around with pellets might change the game for me but I like to use the same pellets in all of my guns if I can (lazy hack, can't be bothered with X pellet for Y gun) provided they get on well with them.

    I'll have to come back to you on impact points in relation to BDC - I'm not at home at the moment and I only memorise my most used rigs so I'm embarrassed to say that I'd have to refer to notes made in my last plotting session :rolleyes:

    One factor that keeps shining through though, is that the BDC Prostaff is always going to offer slightly better aim points for air rifles regardless of calibre than a scope where the aim points are more widely spread.

    I'd take a 40, 45, and 50 yard set of aim points over 31, 40, 50 and 60 any day of the week.
     
  10. clbarclay

    clbarclay Engaging Member

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    With the Nikon BDC, do you make a note of the range of every possible aim point, ie top, middle and bottom or each circle or just just which ones coincide with useful increments?
     
  11. 177

    177 Donator

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    On my HW80 using Air Arms Field pellets, a 3-9x40 Prostaff BDC = more or less bang on in 5 yard increments beyond a 30 yard dead on zero, so the first (centre) circle is 35 (36 actually :rolleyes: ), the second is 40, third is 44 (close enough to 45 to not matter) and then just under 48, so it's an easy system to remember by rounding off at 35, 40, 45 and 50.

    Like I said, I'm a naturally lazy hack ;)

    To me the admittedly better optical and low light performance of the Diamondback is not a good enough trade off when losing a more useful set of aim points. It's a superb scope in all respects but I'm calling it how it is - the BDC aim points are more widely spaced, which makes them less useful to air rifle shooters or, at least, it makes it less useful to this particular shooter.

    I imagine it will come into its own on a .22LR though...
     
  12. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    You could always increase the magnification though, this would simulate great pellet drop....
     
  13. 177

    177 Donator

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    I never touch the mag - all of my x40 and similar scopes are left between 5 and 6x

    If I have a cope that offers useful aim points and my preferred magnification I'm not going to step out of that preference to chase more useful aim points.

    You're right in that I could.

    Trouble is, I won't.

    Higher and lower mag doesn't work well for me on this size objective, so I stick with a combination that works better for my eyes and for the conditions I tend to hunt in. If I'm gaining in some ways and losing in others I have to evaluate the entire set of features, which is why I still prefer the Prostaff's BDC for air rifles :)
     
  14. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    Of course, I'm saying your set up is wrong, but if you find the aimpoints on the vortex too far apart I was just saying that would be an option.

    I'll have to have a look at the Nikon range again, for me with a .22 sub 12ftlb at rabbit ranges you need aimpoints just to make life easier for you self. This is one of the only reasons I don't buy the prostaff efr for it, a.177 is a different matter :) I think my next rifle may be a .177 , but depends on what route I go down .....

    Hence why I'm leaning towards a legend for my .22, I've got a wtc 1.5-5x20 on it at the mo, and the balance is great, a bigger/longer scope (legend) may upset that...
     
  15. 177

    177 Donator

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    WTC 1.5-5x20 is a good little scope, nice and bright and beautifully clear.

    I traded up from mine to the little 1.75-5x32 Multi-X Bushnell Legend and it's streets ahead in low light. Think woodland at dusk, after pigeons...

    I've only ever once shot looking through a 2-7x32 BDC Nikon Prostaff scopes and it was an absolute joy to use. If I could find a UK source for them I'd have a couple in a heartbeat.

    I'd only ever take the EFR Prostaff on with a view of dialling my shots once they have been ranged, but rabbits tend not to stay still long enough to make that easy with a sub 12 FPE gun :(

    ;)
     

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