1. The Forum Rules have undergone some minor changes and updates.  Please take the time to read them; it will only take a couple of minutes of your time. By doing so, you lessen the chance of incurring the wrath of the moderation team or making yourself look foolish to other members.

    90% of users posting adverts in the Sales forums need to be reminded to read the rules as their posts are wrong.  This is unnecessarily time-consuming and will no longer happen - if your advert doesn't follow the Sales Rules it will be deleted and you'll have to start all over again.

    To close this box once you've read it (and the Rules), click on the X in the top right-hand corner.

    Thank you.

    AGF Staff



    Dismiss Notice
  2. A reminder of one of the Forum Rules:

    'Behaviour

    Do not make inappropriate or offensive posts - including threats, harassment, swearing, prejudice, defamation, deliberate insults or name-calling, other negative remarks about this forum, its moderators and administrators or your fellow members. Even if this is just your own personal opinion, RESPECT YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS.'

    There have been changes made to our censoring software in an attempt to help with this growing problem.

    Click the X in the top-right-hand corner to dismiss this notice.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Dear members,

    Our membership (like our country) consists of people from all walks of life; different in far more ways than can be listed here and each with a different view based on their experience of life - regardless of their colour, religion or cultural heritage. Every single person in the UK has been born of mixed race – we are a multi-coloured and multi-cultural country.

    As many of you are aware there are a handful of individuals amongst this membership that persist in making provocative, inflammatory, racist and otherwise offensive comments. This has been happening across the forum to a certain degree but is most especially prevalent in the Adult section.

    The moderation team has tried to stay on top of this, however unfortunately because of the ‘offensive’ nature of much of its content we don’t monitor the Adult section quite as much as perhaps we should. As a result much of this behaviour has gone unnoticed unless it has been reported to us. While the team always intended to take a "light touch" approach to the Adult section it would seem that some people aren’t quite adult enough to be left unmonitored after all.

    This behaviour is, and always has been against Forum Rules as well as the specific stipulations of the Adults forum and it will no longer be tolerated. We feel it's time to draw a line in the sand and as such from this point onward offenders will receive an immediate and permanent ban from the forum.

    In order for us to achieve our goal of restoring the forum to the friendly and tolerant place it once was, we ask that ALL members be mindful of the content they post and help us to stop unacceptable behaviour by using the 'Report' tool at the bottom of any offending post - the results of which can be seen only by Admin/Moderators.

    You should all receive a copy of this message by PM. 

    To close this message box, click on the 'X' in the top-right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Hotmail block emails from us entering your inbox. Unless you can setup a safe sender you will not get activation emails from the forum. Please use an alternative provider or complain to Hotmail.
    Hotmail addresses include.

    @Hotmail.co.uk @Hotmail.com @outlook.com @Live.com
    Dismiss Notice

Tuned S410 Classic And Tyrolean Review

Discussion in 'Airgun Reviews' started by Dr B, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. Dr B

    Dr B Journeyman

    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    2,011
    Location:
    Lake District
    I thought I'd do a review of the S410 Classic (having been tuned a year ago) and now that its been fitted with the new Tyrolean. Here it is

    S410F Classic, .22 Calibre (approx. 8 years old)
    Q-tec moderator
    2-stage (3-sear) trigger
    Uses 5.52 AADFs (16grn)
    Pellets washed and lubed with LT1 product.
    Approximately 8 years old – anti-tamper removed.
    Cloverleaf tuned in early 2018.
    Sweet spot since tuning – 175-bar – 100bar.
    Gives around 68-72 shoots in the sweet spot.
    Has been used weekly since its tune up over a year ago (probably shot >2500 pellets through it). It is rotated with other guns in the cabinet.
    Test included two full fills to 175-Bar and 25 shots from that limit (averaged)
    Chronograph – a brand new LMBR-R2A

    Current stats:
    Av.Muzzle energy
    11.6ft.lbs

    Av.Velocity
    571fps

    Range
    (Maximum – minimum velocity) = 2fps over 25 shots from 175-Bar.

    The gun has always been great to shoot. It has always been sweet and consistent. Mike’s tune-up ensures it’s all working inside as it should. A spread of 2fps is excellent and a few months ago I tried a full shot-string with 7fps (max-min) across the entire sweep spot. Target practice meshes well with these numbers – it is very consistent all the way through its sweet spot and I’m capable of drilling bulleyes at respectable hunting distances. Despite being nearly 10 years old, and having a reasonably hard life in general and plenty of work since the tune-up, it is performing as well (if not better) as from the day it left the factory. These guns hold up well after a fettle and will serve you well over decades.

    I like AA rifles because they are well designed and engineered. They do the job they have been built to do. They are easy to maintain and are very consistent in the field. There may well be newer and more fancy units out there (which is great), but at the end of the day for me it’s all about reaching for your gun when you’ve got a job to do, and reaching for a gun that will do it day in and day out. None of my PCPs have ever developed a leak (touch wood) or given me any drama over and above 15mins of magazine index post schizophrenia and that was only on one unit – the others have been flawless.

    Tyrolean review
    General Aesthetics

    A Tyrolean stock shape has often been described as a bit of a “you either love them or hate them” thing. I’ve always loved them and gotten on with them when shooting other people’s guns that have had them fitted. Because this stock is intended for a PCP that uses high-mounts, the cheek-piece / comb is a little meatier / higher than the old ones on springers – but this is unavoidable if the stock is going to have any utility in the field. As the stock was being made from the blank it was placed into an S410 action for final adjustments to ensure good head position / alignment for the exact action to be fitted. To offset the look of the ‘chunkier’ cheek-piece, the stock is longer with slender tapering lines towards the front end (going very close to the barrel-band and covering more of the air tube) and the angle on the ‘V’ style chequering is sharper to give the whole thing a thinner ‘slicker’ look and feel. I really like what Gary has done here. The overall shape of the stock is extremely well balanced - it gives the gun a unique and I would say a more rounded / balanced appearance.

    DSC_9079.jpg

    DSC_8965.jpg

    Wood grain – tones and detail
    The stock is made from American Black Walnut. Gary Cane rates this wood as Grade 3 (but a high Grade 3). The overall tone is a darkish one (similar to some Turkish walnut), with lots of grain detail and some mixed tones and ‘blushing’ splashing all over the stock. Although it has a dark tone the varied blushing adds to a very balanced looking stock. It’s a stunning thing to look at with a slight holographic feel where the tones and detail differ depending on the light and the viewing angle. I asked for a satin sheen finish that could be maintained with oiling alone. I was also sent some oil to look after and maintain the finish the factory had established.

    Trimmings
    There is an adjustable butt plate (same unit as you see on Minelli stocks – AAs), a white spacer and an end-cap on the pistol grip. This end cap looks like rosewood, but is a special ‘mixture’ that GC is using and he says it’s much more robust than rosewood, while giving the same look. There is hand chequering done on the pistol grip and fore-end of the stock. These follow the classic Venom ‘V’ shapes with a small ‘arrow head’ in the middle. The chequering has been done by hand and is top drawer. It oozes class. It has a nice firm feel to it (which is what I asked for) which gives me great confidence in my grip of the stock. The skill and detailing is exceptional. It feels extremely solid to the touch and gives the shooter a very solid connection to the stock. As I’m getting older my hands are losing their strength and so having this helps to ensure I don’t drop it in the woods!

    DSC_8945.jpg

    DSC_8948.jpg

    In the shoulder
    The stock shoulders extremely well. There is little is any faffing about at getting ones head into the right position (which is how every stock should be). It feels well balanced. I have put a fair few pellets through it now, from my typical shooting stances, and it seems that I don’t need to alter the butt-pad. It’s perfect as it is, at least so far. In contrast, my walnut thumbhole stock did need an adjustment to make it sing sweetly (only a slight one). Nonetheless this seems to suggest that the ergonomics are extremely good. Another aspect which is nothing short of spectacular is the angle of the rake on the pistol grip and the way that Gary has cut a little ‘pocket’ for your hand to slot into and sit neatly – but this one fits really well. Like lots of custom stocks, it also has a pleasant shallow channel carved into the back of the grip for those wanting to shoot thumb-up. What is also nice is that if you do want to wrap your thumb all the way around (thumb down) it is equally as comfortable.

    DSC_9066.jpg

    DSC_9067.jpg

    Head positioning
    Straight down the scope – doing what a Tyrolean needs to do; it puts your head where it needs to be. With my cheek-bone dovetailing above the comb of the cheek-piece the head positioning is perfect and very comfortable. It’s as if I’ve been practicing with it for years. The eye-relief is perfect and the whole view through the scope is readily available as soon as it’s in the shoulder – absolutely fast and intuitive. Part of this is also due to the fact that I take a long time, with any gun, in setting the scope or adjusting butt-plates (if needs be) so that the view I need is indeed right there when the gun is in the shoulder. One thing to note was the first few pellets I put through the gun all fell a tad low and needed a small adjustment. As I made the necessary few clicks, shot again, a couple more clicks, shot again, all the pellets landed exactly on the vertical line of the target. There was no noticeable / significant lateral deviation at all. Whether this was a fluke or does indeed reflect a more consistent head positioning – I don’t know. The scope is parallaxed for the correct distance so you’d think things should be OK. But who knows. A practice technique I use for standing shots is to try to shoulder the gun and fire a shot off as soon as possible. It’s important not to be too rushed, but smooth and no-nonsense. This helps me with stability as well. I’m very consistent with this gun out to 28-30yds at doing this and I can get the shots off quickly – again suggesting a nice fit between my body shape and size and the stock / gun.

    DSC_9041.jpg

    DSC_9055.jpg

    DSC_9095.jpg

    Eye relief
    For my set-up, it’s perfectly suited to how I shoulder the gun, where I place my head on the stock and how much eye relief I need. I altered the magnification on the scope from around x4 to x10 with no obvious issue or problem with being able to get a very comfortable position on the stock. So it is not the case that the stock only works on some scope magnifications – it was well suited and capable across a wide range of magnifications (with and without eye glasses as well).

    Comfort
    Without doubt this is the most comfortable stock I have ever shouldered. Let me put this into context. I’ve owned plenty of guns myself over the years, and shot with many others owned by friends. Many have been sublime – absolutely comfortable and functional, no doubt about it. Perfectly useful and serviceable. However, nothing comes close to this Tyrolean which is the finest thing I’ve shouldered to date. There is no tension in the shoulders and no contorted feelings – it just sits nicely.

    Downsides
    The gun is slightly heavier than with the standard AA walnut thumbhole, but this is offset by a perfect balance in the shoulder. Also, I did not want to fit this stock with slings / swivels. To be honest, none of my PCPs have them and walking around with them normally is simply not an issue for me. My springers have all had them due to the additional weight of the springers I’ve owned (HW80s / T-Rex, etc). Some on here may still have gone ahead and fitted them, it’s all personal. Another downside is I’m now going to have to increase the insurance on this unit!

    Overall conclusions
    I’m delighted with the quality of the wood and craftsmanship. I am also delighted with the functionality of the Tyrolean in that, like my sporters and thumbhole, it goes straight into the shoulder and to where it needs to be – but this feels more decisive here. As the wood is of a superior quality, it is likely more dense and hence a tad heavier (but it’s marginal). I also own a T-rex and I have nothing that is heavier than one of those!!! This unit was never used as a stalking rifle, much more for ambush so any marginal increase in weight is fine as I typically shoot off a stick these days. Although this was a gift / project to myself to see if it could be done, it also has a job to do – I have no room for cabinet queens. The early signs are we’re hitting it off really well together. I’d recommend exploring this as an option. The Tyrolean is a viable option for hunters even if many have long forgotten them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  2. Vangard

    Vangard Engaging Member

    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    317
    Location:
    South Cambs
    Great write up mate and a very nice looking gun.
     
    Dr B likes this.
  3. pbrown

    pbrown Bunghole

    Messages:
    1,377
    Likes Received:
    1,353
    Location:
    Chiseldon, nr Swindon
    Great article, very informative. Thank you :up:

    You say, "2-stage (3-sear) trigger", could you elaborate? Can the standard trigger be greatly improved? It the one thing that I don't like on my s400.
     
    Dr B likes this.
  4. Dr B

    Dr B Journeyman

    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    2,011
    Location:
    Lake District
    Thanks for the nice comments - much appreciated. :thumb:

    @cloverleaf will know more, but IIRC latter day AA PCPs have better triggers than older ones. They are all 2-stage, but more recent models have 3-sear ones which give a better (truer?) 2-stage pull / feel. I've since had the trigger on the carbine swapped out for a more modern 3-sear one. :thumb: Mike knows the details - but i suppose the 1st step would be to see how old your current model is. Perhaps it just requires a tweak? You may have the older or newer version in yours, when was it manufactured?
     
    pbrown likes this.
  5. Dr B

    Dr B Journeyman

    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    2,011
    Location:
    Lake District
    Thank you - it is a looker that's for sure. :thumb:
     
  6. pbrown

    pbrown Bunghole

    Messages:
    1,377
    Likes Received:
    1,353
    Location:
    Chiseldon, nr Swindon
    My rifle is only a year old. I've had many goes at adjusting it and it's usable for HFT but not sure how much more can be done with the standard unit.
     
    Dr B likes this.
  7. mikeyhall1

    mikeyhall1 Pepe Le Pew

    Messages:
    23,730
    Likes Received:
    18,677
    Location:
    Chelmsford/Upminster - Essex
    I’m still picking my jaw up off the floor everytime I see this rifle.
     
    Dr B likes this.
  8. Dr B

    Dr B Journeyman

    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    2,011
    Location:
    Lake District
    It would seem that you've got the latest offering from AA. Mike will know what can be done, or whether its best to swap it out for an after-market one. I've got mine singing nicely on both PCPs, but it can take a bit of faffing about.
     
    pbrown likes this.
  9. Dr B

    Dr B Journeyman

    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    2,011
    Location:
    Lake District
    Thanks Mikey
    It certainly puts a smile on my face - wait until you shoulder it.....then it really does go to a whole new level. :thumb:


    PS - has yours arrived yet?
     
  10. mikeyhall1

    mikeyhall1 Pepe Le Pew

    Messages:
    23,730
    Likes Received:
    18,677
    Location:
    Chelmsford/Upminster - Essex
    I’d love to see it Jason, we must sort something out.

    Mines due any minute now apparently, though I suspect it will be here on Monday.
     
    Dr B likes this.
  11. Dr B

    Dr B Journeyman

    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    2,011
    Location:
    Lake District
    Dont forget photos and let us know what you think of it. :thumb:

    I'm sure we'll get you to shoot mine sometime in the future.
     
    mikeyhall1 likes this.
  12. Dr B

    Dr B Journeyman

    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    2,011
    Location:
    Lake District
    I've recently been offerred 2.2k for the gun when a chap on the farm saw it as i was returning from the woods with it. Nup. It's a keeper for sure. :thumb:.
     
  13. pbrown

    pbrown Bunghole

    Messages:
    1,377
    Likes Received:
    1,353
    Location:
    Chiseldon, nr Swindon
    2.2k :eek: Although it is stunning looking. :up:


    I've had some work done on it now. :up: Black factory gunk removed, all touching surfaces polished, stage adjustment screw heads smoothed off, burrs removed, a Rowan trigger blade fitted (needed a bit of fettling to not foul the trigger guard), a very light lube and proper setup it's now been transformed. :D
     
    Dr B likes this.
  14. Dr B

    Dr B Journeyman

    Messages:
    2,912
    Likes Received:
    2,011
    Location:
    Lake District
    Nice one - a proper trigger set-up can change your performance and experience in the field - sounds like you've got it sorted now :thumb:
     
    pbrown likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice