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The Muzzle Brake On My S400 Won't Come Off

Discussion in 'Technical' started by WesseH, Aug 21, 2020.

  1. WesseH

    WesseH Well-Known Member

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    Hi all,

    Not too technical perhaps, but I can't seem to get the muzzle brake off my S400f.

    Yes, I have loosened (and removed completely) the grub screw that holds it in place.

    No, it isn't "stuck". It rotates freely around the barrel, but it will only move 1 milli towards the end of the barrel. Just enough to hear and feel a 'click' of movement.

    The Air Arms video for this shows the guy loosening the grub screw one turn and then sliding the muzzle brake off without even holding the rifle.......whereas I can hold the rifle vertically by the muzzle brake and spin the rifle round repeatedly to no avail (this is with the grub screw completely removed, so that is definitely not catching on anything).

    Any tips/tricks/advice??
     
  2. Shotaholic

    Shotaholic Busy Member

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    Hmmm... mine came off easily simply by slackening the grub screw. The end of the barrel to which the muzzle brake attaches is just machined to a slightly smaller diameter than the rest of the barrel to accept the brake so no reason why it shouldn't just slide off. The only thing I can think is that crud has built up on the end of the barrel and is preventing the brake from sliding off. Maybe just persevere twisting whilst pulling, maybe even squirt a little easing oil into the end of the brake (WD40 or similar). If you've removed the grub screw there is no other built in mechanical reason as to why it won't come off.
     
    WesseH likes this.
  3. The burpster

    The burpster Posting Addict

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    I would suggest the grub screw has raised a small dent in the steel of the barrel and maybe restricting the withdrawal as it’s presenting a ridge to the inside diameter of the Brake.

    it might help if you gently warm the brake (only) up and give them both a good yank in opposite directions. This may cause a slight scrape on the inside of the brake but at least it will be off.
     
  4. squib

    squib Keyboard Hero

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    Exactly what the @The burpster has said. The factory fitting of a pointed grub screw is shoddy engineering IMO.
    I had exactly the same on my 410, a much neater way is to machine a small flat on the barrel, and use a flat face grub screw.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
    Gary Jones, paj, greyskull and 2 others like this.
  5. WesseH

    WesseH Well-Known Member

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    Happy to give it a go spraying some Napier in there, but tbh, the rifle is less than a year old and during that time on 'active duty' it has spent 4 months locked in its case during lockdown, without any use whatsoever. It has never even seen crud (indoor or outdoor) as I only ever use it for 50m bench rest with very clean JSB Exact pellets.

    I also pulled both a clean and an oiled cloth through the barrel last week when I did a routine clean & polish.
    Whereby I did find that my pull through knocks on the end of the barrel on the way in i.e. the muzzle brake is obviously wider than the barrel, but I didn't use much force and couldn't imagine the flexible pull through kit knocking the end of the barrel so hard as to cause damage.

    Could it be a burr left on the end of the barrel? With everything looking so well finished on Air Arms I can hardly imagine... But given the very slight forward movement I do get and the free rotation around the barrel (when pulled forward and pushed back both), it seems one of very few sensible conclusion left to be drawn?
     
  6. WesseH

    WesseH Well-Known Member

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    As I've seen, the grub screw on mine isn't pointy. It may still have been inserted with such force that it caused an indent and corresponding burr, but with a flat grub screw that would be a serious case of overtightening!
     
  7. no country members

    no country members Tooled up tool

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    If you pull hard enough it will come off.

    Consider gloves with rubberised grips or mole grips if necessary to get enough purchase. Turn it slightly while pulling.
     
    WesseH likes this.
  8. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Big Poster

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    That's about the only option left .

    pull hard , twist at the same time .
    clean the burrs up when it's off
     
    WesseH likes this.
  9. WesseH

    WesseH Well-Known Member

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    I guess I'll need to find a vice of some sort... Gloves, cloths and other grips don't provide enough purchase, or maybe I just lack the grip strength...
    But tools obviously and very easily damage the finish on the muzzle brake... Just putting pliers on it without pull has put a scuff on both sides, so that is definitely not the way to go!

    I am back in the club tonight, so I'll bring it with me and see if I can get a hand from someone there.
    Thanks for the advice all! Must say, first 'downside' I've found to my otherwise very reliable and well made completely unmodified S400.
     
  10. Radlad

    Radlad Posting Addict

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    Make a strap wrench by nailing a leather belt to a piece of wood. That will give you the purchase you need without marking any surface. Buy some nylon faced grub screws for when you put it back on. That will prevent any surface damage in the future. Roughly, what's the first part of your postcode please?
     
    WesseH likes this.
  11. Dag

    Dag Pro Poster

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    A small strip of ply with a U shaped cutout to fit round barrel and located at top of muzzle break. Using that to protect the break a sharp tap with a hammer should free it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
    WesseH likes this.
  12. mike-carter

    mike-carter Major Poster

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    The Muzzle Brake On My S400 Won't Come Off

    Not into tools and all that, going by the sound, Muzzle Brake, me, I'd break it off cos patience I haven't got.:(
     
    WesseH likes this.
  13. WesseH

    WesseH Well-Known Member

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    I'm in Rochdale, Kirkholt, 10 minutes from RAGC.

    I do have an old belt to put in between the pliers and the muzzle I suppose.

    Tried some compressed wood, don't have proper ply.... but will fiddle a bit and between this and the leather belt between muzzle brake and pliers give it another good go!

    Not that craftsman/engineer minded, does it show? lol!
     
  14. WesseH

    WesseH Well-Known Member

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    Ok.
    The good news is... I have managed to get the muzzle brake off and not damaged the barrel in any way I can see!
    The bad news is... There is indeed a burr that runs the full circumference of the barrel. At roughly the 10 mm mark from the muzzle.

    I ended up using: the compressed wood, a hammer and a flathead screwdriver.
    Used the compressed wood as a buffer, hit with the hammer. Of course, it splintered, so each time a bit of wood was stuck half under the muzzle brake, I used that to protect the barrel while using the screwdriver as the buffer to get more impact with the hammer... 4 or 5 repetitions of this, and the muzzle brake had come forward roughly the 10 mm referenced above, far enough to loosen it enough to get it off by hand.

    Victory! With no damage to the barrel and a still functional muzzle brake with only very minor damage to the barrel-end of if (although the latter is largely irrelevant as I don't intend to use it now I can put my MWSS200 silencer on).

    Thank you all for your tips and suggestions. Case closed!
     

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    SamG340, paj, Dag and 1 other person like this.
  15. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Big Poster

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    Wet and dry is your friend
     
  16. no country members

    no country members Tooled up tool

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    Mark is hidden when you put a moderator on anyway.
     
    WesseH likes this.
  17. Bradley Worthington

    Bradley Worthington Engaging Member

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    Clean it up with wet and dry or emery.

    Apply some oil to the metal and refit the muzzle brake. A very slight nip on the grub screw is all you need.
     
  18. paj

    paj Busy Member

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    I'd put a spot of low strength screw lock on the grub screw or you could end up with the opposite problem. Cos' been there - done that!
     
  19. WesseH

    WesseH Well-Known Member

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    So, instead of making a new thread about my ventures, I figured I would update here seeing as the current issue is connected.

    As I am now using a rifle bag that is just too short to safely put my rifle in with the silencer attached, I've been taking it off...
    And noticed that, mere weeks after (the troubles) taking the muzzle brake off to fit a silencer, the edge that the muzzle brake (and now the silencer) slides up to had gone rusty pretty much all the way around... Sadly I forgot to take a 'before' picture. But I'm sure you can all imagine what a 2 mm circle of rusty steel looks like just at that edge where the barrel goes from thinner to thicker.

    So luckily, I'd ordered a nice and tidy 'variety pack' of wet & dry, as per recommendations above, and after maybe an hour I am quite pleased with the result.
    My main issue was deciding what grain to use... In the end I figured I would start with something not too coarse but that would still be certain to get through and then would just smooth it out in 2 or 3 (ultimately just 2) stages.
    So, I ended up using a 320 grain for sanding, which could probably have been one or 2 grades less coarse for adequate effect.
    And then followed up with a 1000 grain and 3000 grain polishing.
    Then I've cleaned the area off with a cloth sprayed with Napier VP90, followed by a dry cloth.

    Once properly dried, I then applied Bisley Gun Blue, taking another piece of cloth, dipping in gun blue, rubbing into the area and as it dried applying again with the same cloth. Did that 5 times before wiping off with a dry cloth, waiting a little, and repeated the process.

    The result, as the picture shows, is clearly a matte finish, but it seems to have taken well, and I hope it will stay rust free for a good amount of time now.

    Any tips on gloss finish? (not too fussed obviously, but while on the subject...)
    I suppose I'd need a completely different range of products?
     

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  20. Shotaholic

    Shotaholic Busy Member

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    Not sure about your efforts at rust removal and bluing, but photography certainly isn't your forte:p. Did you not apply a tiny smear of grease or oil before fitting the muzzle brake or moderator?
     

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