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The last one - Steyr LG110 Hunting

Discussion in 'Gun Gallery' started by cloverleaf, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. milek

    milek Honorary Member

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    Re-reading this Mike confirms how lucky I was with mine. I never clean the barrel and it doesn't give a monkeys what pellet I put down it, it's a cracker. Mine is free floated and gives the occasional rattle when I put it down on the bench from when it was reamed out. Brave but necessary move imo.
     
  2. Spray1Mark

    Spray1Mark Pro Poster

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    Pressure bedding was of course initially done to get poor guns to shoot more consistently.

    Perhaps this is Steyrs modern method of pressure bedding? anyways no-one would say their barrels arent good would they?
     
  3. milek

    milek Honorary Member

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    I would. I have seen for myself some Steyr's that can't group past 30 yards. It seems the CZ barrel ends up on a few of them.
     
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  4. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Thanks Mike :)

    Tbh I'd have been very happy to keep this barrel despite its apparent requirement for regular cleaning as it otherwise shot very well. No good though if the damage to the muzzle's OD didn't allow me to hang stuff off the end; especially as I'm seriously considering a mod due to the muzzle report.

    I totally agree re. the floating; although I'd want some form of buffer in there to prevent the rattle as that would do my nut! Equally I'd not much appreciate the lack of finish (especially since it would be visible at the rear of the hole in the chassis and ally tends to chip when machined). Really makes me want to buy a beater to float and refinish, although I have neither the funds nor inclination to buy another one tbh!

    While this rifle certainly isn't junk, has some very nice design points and excels in many areas I can't help but feel pretty underwhelmed tbh :(


    I'm not sure as this would apply to airguns tbh since it's all about barrel resonance / whip under recoil and I'm not convinced that there are sufficient forces at play in a PCP (especially one as dead as the LG) to cause issues in this area. What does concern me is POI shift due to the chassis deflecting with temperature changes. Seems like a massive b*****k dropped on such an expensive target-oriented gun tbh, although to be fair Steyr are far from the only offenders here.

    Perhaps the European brands have more of an excuse for this since their rifles are usually derived from 10m guns, which are usually used at much closer ranges and in far more temperature-stable environments. Still very poor though IMO.
     
  5. audi swift

    audi swift Man up & pull the bloody trigger.... HFT 101.

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    Hope all goes well with the barrel swap, & I fully agree with the points that you've made what steyr should have thought about or done from the offset.

    I removed that white insert on both of mine, & on the black HFT chassis I made the A frame hole a tad bigger not the best work I've done but it works fine with no temperature shift well touch wood.
    However on the silver FT action all I've done is to remove that white insert as there's no need to alter or make the the A frame bigger, maybe due to the action being silver where the paints a tiny bit thinner then the black actions?, plus this version as also got the longer 550mm barrel what's just silver.
     
  6. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Thanks - appreciate the support as tbh I'm at my wit's end with buggering about with guns and parts that aren't as they should be from the off. That said I have a lot of faith in both Steyr products and Steyr UK / Harry's service so I'm hoping I won't be disappointed!

    You're a braver man than I, attacking the chassis! IIRC both the black and silver chassis' are anodised, so there should be no difference in surface layer thickness here. The barrel though most likely is a shade smaller (16.0mm?) on the silver (polished?) version than on the black barrels as these appear to be finished with something like cerakote that definitely adds thinkness (these are quoted at 16.1mm, suggesting that the coating is around 0.05mm thick).
     
  7. audi swift

    audi swift Man up & pull the bloody trigger.... HFT 101.

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    I just think the black coating is a tad thicker than the silver one on mine but I don't fully know? The long barrel is not anodised so that's a tiny bit of a mm room in the A frame.
    My rifles are a tool for the job so I got fed up with the so called temp shift, so got out a few tools to trim the barrel frame. Wish steyr could sort it out & do a neater job from the off as that will help us non 10m shooters....

    It also helps in my eyes when the black barrels are a bit worn in to get rid of some of that inside the barrel anodizing \ coating that they use on the black barrels. Be it with a rod with a few super intensive felts & strong cleaner or a pull through over time, etc. but that's at the owners risk, I just clean mine now & then or if I am changing pellets batches or make of pellets.
    My first barrel was a poor one & I even got it tested by a top HFT \ FT shooter on my action & on one of his steyrs to double check it over, to make sure it was not just me being fussy etc.Hence I sent off & got a nice new one what's a lot better ok, it's still a bit fussy, but when its on its on great, just me being the weak link if I'm using a good batch of pellets that is.
     
  8. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    I agree about the coating thickness; however the (Aluminium) chassis' are anodised, the (Stainless) barrels can't be anodised so have some significant thickness-adding coating instead. The bore will be plugged / masked when this process is carried out as otherwise it'd b****r things royally!

    Bit depressing that the QC can vary that widely on barrels - fingers' crossed I don't get a turd!
     
  9. audi swift

    audi swift Man up & pull the bloody trigger.... HFT 101.

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    Sorry I should have said nickel coating on the bore interior of the black anodised barrels, what might cause fouling.
     
  10. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    I think the barrels are stainless (stand to be corrected!) and regardless they can't be anodised on account of being steel, hence why I mentioned the coating ;)


    Right, got the replacement barrel today (delays mostly on me as usual) and as is typically the case Steyr UK have been very accomodating. So far the barrel looks decent enough; have pulled it thought and reassembled the rifle; fingers crossed that it shoots well when I get the chance to try it!
     
    audi swift likes this.
  11. PBaz Barrett

    PBaz Barrett 'I love slinging lead me'..

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    Awesome read Cloverleaf, nice quality work..:thumb:
     
    cloverleaf likes this.
  12. audi swift

    audi swift Man up & pull the bloody trigger.... HFT 101.

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    Yeah, I meant coating... get mixed up with all these words, I'm going blame me MEDs I'm on :D
    However glad you've got the new barrel, now get out there & get shooting!!!
     
    cloverleaf likes this.
  13. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Snuck up the range earlier for a somewhat frustrating and inconclusive afternoon.

    Upon leaving the house it seemed fairly still, however (as is often the case) the range was pretty windy when I got there. Being in a quarry I think you get a lot of swirl and it's difficult to tell what the wind is doing from the cover of the firing point - all you can do is observe the target, trees, shadow of the range flag, wind on your face and listen to the creaking of the point to try to gauge the best time to pull the trigger.

    From the bench all felt fairly still, however walking out onto the range presented a not-insignificant breeze coming in from around half past 10..

    I tried five different variants / batches of unsorted JSB pellet at 35yd and the results were lacklustre to say the least; although with all the groups being spoilt by horizontal stringing I'm hoping I'm legit in blaming the wind. This behaviour was amplified when haplessly pushing out to 55yd; with a group of AADF's going into 14mm c-c vertically and 58mm c-c horizontally!

    I gave up outside and moved to the indoor range; where the gun put in 5x5 shot groups at 20yd with AADE ranging from 2.5-3.5mm c-c; the mean being 3.0mm. These certainly could have been worse and when groups get this small aiming inaccuracies start to play more of a part.

    So, as it stands I'm currently satisfied with the performance indoors and cautiously hopeful about how it will perform outside in better conditions.

    The barrel's now had around 175 shots through it and I had a quick peek inside the muzzle. It shows some dusty-looking lead deposits at the root of the lands but no major fouling. While the geometry of the crown looks good with nice crisp definition to the rifling form, disappointingly the finish of the crown itself doesn't look great and there appear to be some shallow radial scuffs in some of the grooves near the muzzle - although thankfully they're minimal and certainly not "BSA grade" :p
     
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  14. audi swift

    audi swift Man up & pull the bloody trigger.... HFT 101.

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    Glad you got out for a bit today. Hope you get a nice day to test some more & then zero up the new barrel. Pity about the crown are.
    It was a little bit windy at the club I went today, nothing that bad mind just a bit to trick you at certain times on the HFT course.
     
    cloverleaf likes this.
  15. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Ta! I hoped it'd be a nice day as it was an excuse to get outside, but the fun was sucked out by the mediocre results.

    I had a look at the photos of the crown on my old barrel and actually the surface finish looks about the same, while the rifling looks better (but only because of the absence of the light radial scratches, not in terms of general finish).

    I went over today's targets again and in retrospect they look fairly promising. Focussing on the five 10-shot groups shot with my current batch of AADE outside in the wind at 35yd the mean group size was 15.4 x 7.0mm; so the average group was over twice as wide as it was deep and pretty much every group I shot outside was horizontally strung to some significant extent.

    Conversely the groups shot inside at 20yd showed very even group dispersion with no horizontal bias; so I'm tentatively blaming the wind for today's meh performance; and if I can get groups of 7mm c-c proper in still conditions I'll be very happy :)

    Oh, I also stuck 20 shots through the rifle freestanding and managed a 198 which isn't too shabby.. I still find the rifle's almost complete lack of reaction upon firing (thanks to its "stabiliser") somewhat un-nerving as there's nothing to disguise my shocking trigger control and it's laid bare in all it's snatchy glory - I suppose it gives me a good opportunity to improve if nowt else!
     
  16. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Another fairly boring update..

    I managed to get up the club early last night and squeezed in an hour on the outside range before dark. Conditions were pretty much perfect and the usual anxiety of testing aside it was really pleasant, peaceful escape (if regularly punctated by the particularly antisocial bark of the rifle).

    A 2017 batch of AADE's was used throughout and the usual measures taken to ensure that variables that could affect group size were minimised; shooting from the standard setup of front and rear bags on a steel bench rest.

    Results
    Starting at 35yd the rifle printed three 10-shot groups of 9, 10 and 11mm c-c (along with one cracking 5-shot group at 4.5mm c-c) for a mean 10-shot group size of 10mm c-c. Moving back to 55yd things predictably opened up somewhat; yielding four 10-shot groups of 18, 21.5, 24 and 24.5mm (18mm exc. one outlier) c-c for a mean group size of 22mm c-c. Since it was such a nice evening I pushed the target holder back to 75yd; getting a group size of 29mm c-c over 10 shots (24.5mm exc. one outlier). Finally moving back to a full 100yd scored a group of 60mm c-c, or 41.5mm excluding one high one. These groups can be seen in the targets below:

    [​IMG]

    After the serious stuff was done I managed to hit a 1" spinner three out of five times at 100yd from the rest, as well as planting ten out out ten shots onto our 9"-ish high rabbit silhouette at this range freestanding :)


    Thoughts and Conclusions
    At a mean dispersion of 10mm c-c and little standard deviation the groups at 35yd are certainly good if not mind-blowing. The groups at 55yd are somewhat disappointing, but not utterly terrible. The group at 75yd is pretty decent (especially with the one flier dropped), as is the 100yd group - which with the flier omitted would have been the best group I've every shot with an air rifle at this range.

    Perhaps irritatingly the groups are all larger than the few I've managed with my Mk2 Pro-Target (which cost about 20% of what the Steyr did) however considering different rifles might favour different pellets this is a bit of an arbitrary judgement. On the up side I generally don't think this current batch of 2017 AADEs are generally as good as the 2013 batch I had before them - so am hoping for better results from the LG with a different pellet, or perhaps if I sort these ones by mass and / or head size. To be fair to this barrel the last one managed 19mm c-c at 55yd with the older, potentially better AADEs, so this one's not too far behind.

    I did find the difference between the groups at different ranges interesting; averaging 1.07MOA at 35yd, 1.50MOA at 55yd, 1.45MOA at 75yd and 2.25MOA at 100yd. The usual exponential growth in group size with range is still present but doesn't appear to be as exaggerated as it sometimes is; usually I'd expect a rifle that prints near-inch groups at 55yd to be all over the place at 100.

    So yeah, in summary middling results. Not the tack-driving performance I'd hoped for, but not an abject failure either and with some promise of potential future improvement.



    In other news I played with the trigger blade position again and wound on a little weight to both the first and second stages; which may or may not constitute an improvement. I've also looked into a low-profile bolt for the palm rest since the current (non-standard?) one is proud of the rest's surface by around 1.5mm. It also has a spurious M6 washer beneath it; presumably to protect the surface of the original spring washer which is somewhat scuffed. As usual nothing is simple as all the bolts I come across are either stainless / crap quality / only available in massive quantities.. so the search continues.

    I also had a play freestanding on the indoor range but didn't shoot particularly well; more my fault than the rifle's although I still don't particularly feel like I'm gelling with it.. despite the partial appeasement of my anxiety regarding the barrel. Also, despite the "stabiliser" making the rifle far more dead to shoot than anything else I own, there is still detectable muzzle rise when firing; I'm wondering if this is just a stabilser setup issue or whether it's perhaps something to do with the striker bounce..

    Anyway, I think that's all for now.
     
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  17. Oat

    Oat Very Active

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    Its heading the right direction.
    Will bring a selection of pellets next time to see if any make a difference for the better.
     
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  18. NIVEA

    NIVEA Not Banned Yet

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    Well done Clover.

    That was the most technically detailed piece ive ever read.

    Comprehensive and fantastic pics with a full and detailed explanation on every aspect of that rifle . . . . . 10/10 . . . TOP MAN . . . :up:
     
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  19. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Thanks Tim - will be good to try it with a few alternatives!

    Thanks - high praise indeed! Glad you found it of interest :)
     
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  20. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Thanks in part to the clocks going forward, last night saw some more time spent anchored to the bench rest. Conditions were good so I pushed straight out to 55yd in an effort to test some of the various different batches and types of pellets I have at my disposal.

    Firstly were two groups of 2017 AADEs, coming in at 19.5 and 24.0mm c-c for a mean group size of a little under 22mm. Next I tried some of the (in my head) magic 2013 batch; giving three groups of 26 (excluding a flier, which was the first shot), 26 and 22mm for a mean of a little less than 25mm c-c. Not so magic in this rifle, then..

    As the light faded I decided to move away from the 7.9gn pellets so tried a newly-opened (old) tin of JSB Exact 4.53. right off the bat the rifle convincingly dropped 10 of these into a lovely little 16.5mm c-c group :)

    By this time the light was getting pretty bad, I was sick of testing / losing the ability to concentrate, and thought I'd afford myself the priviledge and comfort of ending on a win for once!

    Last night's groups can be seen below - as usual there were shot using a shorter-range zero without aiming off; so the POI for each group is about two dots above it:

    [​IMG]


    I was very pleased with the group from the 4.53 Exacts and will be extremely happy with the rifle if it can do this consistantly :)

    [​IMG]


    So in summary it looks like the rifle really doesn't like AADEs from the lacklustre (if at least consistant) performance from the two batches I've tried. Assuming the much better group with the Exacts can be taken as indicitive, it remains to be seen whether the rifle's performance will also be superior to the AADE's with other 8.4gn JSB pellets, or perhaps the slightly larger head size is playing a significant role in the better performance of these particular Exacts.

    I'm not sure how relevant it is but I did notice the AADEs were a pretty loose fit in the breech - to the point where there was no resistance when loading and I'm pretty certain if dropped in they'd fall in to the point where the rear end of the skirt would be sub-flush with the rear face of the breech.

    Conversely while the 4.53 Exacts took very little effort to insert into the breech, unless a conscious effort was made to seat them properly the skirt would remain proud of the rear face of the barrel. As such it appears that they're a tighter fit (at least at the skirt; and by implication of the larger stated head size also at the front too).

    Plans for the next range trip are to try a few more groups with the 4.53 Exacts at 55yd in an effort to corroborate last night's performance, as well as to test the remaining JSB pellet variants I have; which IIRC includes some 7.3gn FAPs, maybe three more tins of 8.4s (AADF and Exact) as well as a tin of 10.3gn DS Heavies. Once I've found a winner I'll probably push the range out to 100yd again just for laughs; providing the weather's amenable.

    The sod is that all the pellets I have are pretty old so the chances of acquiring more of the same are slim. That said the current testing should hopefully set my mind at ease that the gun does at least perform to a decent standard, as well hopefully pointing me in the right direction as to what sort of pellets I should narrow my search to.

    Once I've found something decent I'll probably aim to buy a sleeve and possibly sort them by head size and mass; using the rejects for standing comps / plinking while I save the best for that non-existant situation that demands the best long-range performance from the gun :p



    In other news with probably 350 or so rounds through the new barrel I took a few pics of the bore at the muzzle.. I did try to get some of the breech as well but couldn't get close enough without some part of the rifle fouling the lens.

    Here are the two best from the many I shot earlier:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    While the finish on the crown itself isn't great, far more importantly its intersection with the rifling at the muzzle appears crisp and straight with no burrs, dings or deformaties. Similarly the shape of the rifling is very consistant and uniform. The surface finish of the bore looks very good too - as previously mentioned the very shallow radial marks on the lands can be seen faintly in both pics (more so the second) but I very much doubt this has any real-world impact whatsoever.

    In keeping with the excellent finish of the bore the photos show practically zero lead fouling; the only allusing to any being some light-coloured areas at the roots of the rifling lands, but there are no signs of lead accumulating unevenly in any areas :)

    Anyway, that's all for now - as usual will post more progress (hopefully!) as and when.
     
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