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The last one - Steyr LG110 Hunting

Discussion in 'Gun Gallery' started by cloverleaf, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    A small and pretty inconsequential update..

    Last week I finally got the chance to stretch the rifle's legs a bit on the outdoor range.

    The first group at 35yd with 2017 AADE's was utterly, utterly terrible at maybe 30-40mm :eek:

    This was the last of these pellets so I shot another three 5-shot groups with an older batch (2013) of AADEs; which to my relief came in at 10mm, 8.5mm and 7.5mm c-c. Certainly not shabby but at the larger end of what I'd expect from a rifle of this pedigree.

    The backstop was moved to 55yd and I put some 10-shot groups on the card; which were immensely disappointing. Five groups were shot with a range of pellets (AADE and two batches of JSB Exacts) all of which ranged from 40-70mm c-c. Utterly despondent at the prospect of doing battle yet again with another supplier over the quality of their products (although to be fair Steyr UK are far better than most) I took the rifle home, dragged 15 pull-throughs down the filthy barrel and chucked it back in its case.

    Fast-forward to last night when I got another opportunity to get the rifle up the club. The target went straight out to 55yd and I started with a 10-shot group with the 2013 AADEs - which to my relief came in at 19mm c-c. Another with 4.53 Exacts came to 21.5mm c-c.

    [​IMG]

    While not the best groups in the world ever, a stark improvement compared to last week and not at all bad considering that there was a slight breeze, the pellets were unsorted and the groups were shot straight after cleaning with no fouling shots or acclimatisation period between switching ammo type.

    I'm certainly relieved that a good clean sorted the rifle out and am confident that the groups could be shrunk further with a bit more thought towards ammo selection.

    I can't honestly remember whether the barrel has been cleaned since I purchased the rifle - I'd like to think that this issue is the result of remnants of oil or grease in the barrel from transit that I'd failed to remove.

    That said I'm aware that Steyr barrels do have a bit of a rep for requiring regular cleaning so perhaps I'll just have to resign myself to giving it a scrub periodically. Time will tell!
     
    jps norton and bucketboy like this.
  2. audi swift

    audi swift Man up & pull the bloody trigger.... HFT 101.

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    Looking & sounding better :up:, oh yes the good old do I or do I not clean the barrel question.....
    Glad your shooting up to 55y & getting it to group ok, more testing on batch numbers etc you will get tighter groups.

    My steyr 110 HFT 2014 ( 450mm barrel ) likes to be cleaned every 300 shots or so, but that depends on the pellets or jsb batch numbers, due to some being more 'dirty' then others :D
    My steyr 110 FT 2014 with the silver 550mm barrel likes to be cleaned a bit sooner on the jsb batch number that I am using through it now, maybe every 200 shots.
    When I say cleaned I mean a light pull through only not a rod or a even a tight pull through. Both steyrs are using a jsb exact batch from 2016.

    One of my mates says his Steyr HFT Challenge needs to be cleaned around every 100 shots! He says it likes a clean barrel to group good.
    To me that seems to be a very low number, surely that barrel has not had time to lead back up right?
     
    cloverleaf likes this.
  3. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Thanks!

    Ta for your thoughts / experiences on barrel cleaning - it's good to get some real-world feedback as it's not something I have a lot of experience with. My Air Arms stuff seems to go on forever without the need for cleaning (although maybe I've just not been paying enough attention!) while the only stuff I've had to clean regularly have been properly sub-par offerings with noticably poor internal finishes.

    Just out of interest how much do you find the groups open up by when the barrel becomes dirty?

    I've always equated the need to clean with poor barrel finish, however the inside of this one seems good from what I can ascertain; perhaps there's an ideal surface roughness for minimal fouling..?

    Since I have plenty of more important things to do today I decided to take some shots of the bore at the muzzle. Thankfully there were no nasty surprises internally with the finish looking good and all features crisp and true.

    I can't remember how many rounds the barrel had through it last night (my best guess would be somewhere around 100; perhaps a few more) and from the pics there seems to be absolutely no evidence of lead fouling, which is encouraging!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Unfortunately I was very disappointed to find some damage at the muzzle (where it looks like the barrel or gun has been dropped during production):

    [​IMG]

    While I'll make Steyr UK aware of this I'm reluctant to get the barrel changed as this one is a known quantity and seems to shoot well - I don't fancy opening the can of worms that is replacing the barrel and would feel like an idiot in exchanging an accurate (if cosmetically challenged) barrel for a nice-looking but inaccurate one.

    It's not the end of the world but frustrating and really not very clever on a rifle of this price..
     
    Pete236 likes this.
  4. audi swift

    audi swift Man up & pull the bloody trigger.... HFT 101.

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    Pity about that finish :(. The new barrel should be a good one ( i hope ).

    I lightly clean the barrel when I think the groups should be a bit tighter, or when I notice the groups open up a bit to much for my liking.
     
  5. milek

    milek Honorary Member

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    Thats every 5 shots with your shooting Kenny :)
     
  6. Douglas Soal

    Douglas Soal Donator

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    Could you ask if they will refinish the barrel for you. It’s not acceptable imo,on any new rifle, but a steyr, definitely not.
     
  7. audi swift

    audi swift Man up & pull the bloody trigger.... HFT 101.

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    Sometimes,,,, I agree.... o_O:D
     
    milek likes this.
  8. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Indeed. I was going to let it lie but unfortunately in the area of damage some material has displaced radially; altering the barrels OD at that point and meaning that I may well be in the sh*te if I ever want to fit anything onto the end of the barrel such as a stripper or mod.. so it looks like it'll have to go back :(

    I very much doubt it; especially given the damage mentioned above. I'm a bit irritated it's taken me 8 months to notice it; however I don't believe I've cleaned the barrel before and tbh the gun's not had a massive amount of use. An email to Steyr UK on Monday morning it is, then..
     
    Douglas Soal likes this.
  9. bucketboy

    bucketboy Keyboard Hero

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    I have just re-read the entire thread, unfortunately it looks like I may have to sell one of my much loved rapids to part fund the purchase of a steyr.

    Curse you mister clover!

    Bb
     
    cloverleaf likes this.
  10. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Right, a quick(?!) one as it's nearly bedtime!

    When purchasing this rifle it was a toss-up between the High-Power (longer barrel, no palm rest) and HFT (shorter barrel, palm rest). I wanted the longer barrel and didn't much like the aesthetic of the palm rest, so got the former.

    As those who've waded through this thread previously will know, I'm not loving the lack of palm rest. The reach to the skinny forend is no fun on standers, while the cold ally frame with the T-channel in its underside is hardly welcoming either.

    As such I've been weighing up palm rest options pretty much since I bought the gun. For various reasons nothing has ticked all the boxes so far so I've sat on my hands..

    Thanks to the seemingly perpetual flow of goodies that pass through Milek's hands a standard HFT palm rest came up for grabs recently and for the price I couldn't really say no (cheers Mike!) :)

    It arrived yesterday and promptly got slung on the gun:

    [​IMG]

    The unit is wood (walnut?) painted black and secured with a bolt and long T-nut in the middle that pulls the rest against the frame via two columns of polymer spacers; located fore and aft between the two parts.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The longish ally T-nut:

    [​IMG]

    The unit came with 2x4 spacers (all of which were installed), which are dovetailed together and can be separated to reduce their cumulative height and hence the effective depth of the rest.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Concerned about potential damage to the finish of the underside of the rifle I put a rectangle of my favourite black PVC tape on each of the mating surfaces between the spacers and the gun and made sure everything was clean before it went together.

    You might be able to make out in the photos how the contact areas between the spacers and the gun are relatively small and located at the ends of the spacers. This seems to have a purpose when attaching spacers to each other as it helps them "snap" together and remain in one column; I might flat down these faces on the top spacers though to increase the contact area with the rifle..


    The whole assembly is in decent used condition and I certainly can't complain given what I paid. Ergonomics are immeasurably improved with the rest fitted; allowing a stable hold at a comfortable height standing without contorting one's self to fit the gun, while the warm, flat wood is infinitely more comfortable than the cold aluminum channel in the underside of the forend!

    Yesterday I also tweaked the cheekpiece a little lower; meaning the contact point is now with my cheek rather than against my considerably less padded cheekbone, which makes things a lot more comfortable. The rifle was carted up the club last night and after a few cards to get acquanted I shot this at 20yd freestanding:

    [​IMG]

    Not the best I've shot (note the pulled shot to the right) however I can't complain as it's certainly not terrible. The groups improved after I made an effort to change my perception of the trigger release process from a rearward pull to a directionless tightening of the trigger finger. The gun certainly feels more stable and predictable on target now, which aids proper trigger control.


    Undeniably improved ergonomics aside I have mixed feelings about the palm rest - the biggest issue being the way it attaches to the gun. While certainly versatile I'm concerned by the potential for damage; namely inside the rail from the T-nut in the event of over-tightening. However, having found that the nut is ally rather than steel has set my mind at rest as I suspect this would bend / deform before the rifle's frame if anything was over-tightened.

    In addition there's the potential risk of cosmetic damage to the underside of the forend at the contact points with the spacers should any dust or grit get trapped between them and the underside of the rifle. Indeed, I've previously noticed some light surface scratches on the gun's frame (before I got the rest) and these correspond suspiciously with the support locations on the new palm rest - so I think perhaps this gun has had one fitted before.

    During fitting the bolt into the T-nut was gingerly tweaked up (I wanted to torque it but the 1.2Nm minimum of my tool seemed a bit too much). The fixing needs to be sufficiently tight to allow the gun to be handled by the rest without the two parting company, and also not allow the rest to rotate with respect to the gun (there's a bit of lateral slop between the spacers and the gun's rail, allowing some rotation about the bolt if it's not tight enough). Of course we don't want to go too mental and bend anything by over-tightening!

    One of the reason I wasn't overly keen on this palm rest as supplied with the gun was the finish - despite being supplied with otherwise oiled walnut furniture this part was for some reason painted black. While it doesn't look terrible there are a few dings and judging by the grain pattern it is Walnut underneath; so I'm sorely tempted to crack out the paint stripper and stock oil! Who knows what lurks beneath, though..

    Finally the bolt that retains the rest sticks out a little proud from the underside of the rest so I might change it for something with a shallower head.

    I still need to get in touch with Steyr about the state of the barrel too; which I'm somewhat ambivolent about since it shoots so well..

    Anyway, that concludes possibly the most words ever written on the most basic and boring subject - I hope you had nothing better to do :p
     
  11. wsnaith

    wsnaith Donator

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    Hi Mike

    You have inspired me into getting one of these guns. I am going to have a go at making my own palm rest

    Would it be too much trouble to get the dimensions of

    the longish ally T-nut:

    [​IMG]

    Thanks in advance

    Warren
     
  12. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    I'll make an effort to measure it next time I have the rest off - now it's all where I want it I don't really want to be pulling it all to bits again I'm afraid. The nut should be a standard size to fit the rail; as the dims of these are standardised (I believe they're often referred to as UIT or Anschutz rails). I'd expect these to be available off the shelf if you look in the right places :)
     
  13. wsnaith

    wsnaith Donator

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    Thanks Mike :)
     
    cloverleaf likes this.
  14. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    A tiny non-update..

    Used the rifle for the first time today while wearing a coat - the added padding helping to make up a little for its less-than-stellar ergonomics; making it feel less twitchy in response to poor trigger contral and allowing shots to be dropped in the bull a little bit easier.

    I also learnt a down side of the very light trigger though; the cold reducing the sensitivity in my finger until the point where I was struggling to identify the start of the 2nd stage. This resulted in a greater incentive to snatch at the trigger mid-way through the first stage along with a general loss of confidence. I also found that I'd positioned the palm shelf a little too far back so it restricted access to the adjustment screw, so that had to be punted forward.

    The 2nd stage weight screw has now had 4 turns wound on to increase the pull weight - at a guess its now around half way through its adjustment range and while still light should hopefully be more manageable in the cold. Will make an effort to set it up on a particularly cold night then keep this setting.

    That is all!
     
    wsnaith, The Robin and jps norton like this.
  15. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    A further, tinier non-update.

    Having gained access to a decent set of scales I weighed the rifle today; everything (rifle, scope & covers, mounts, butt pad extension, palm rest) coming in at 4.40kg - a whole 100g / 2ish percent under the NSRA LSR maximum of 4.5kg :D

    This also means that I can use my registered-sex-offender glove in comps as it only weighs around 42g; however even with the scope covers removed I very much doubt I'd be inside the regs with a "proper" shooting glove as these seem to be around 250g. No big deal though as I seem to do OK without a glove. I might just have got away with it were it not for the extra mass of the "Mk2" Panorama over the original but I'm not that bothered.

    While not the most exciting of comps I'm quite tempted to enter another LSR postal next year to give myself an excuse to use the LG :)
     
  16. Wing-span

    Wing-span Hello Peter Rabbit. Shhh... go to sleep.

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    Quite a journey. Keep going as it is fascinating.
     
    cloverleaf likes this.
  17. wsnaith

    wsnaith Donator

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    Well Mike

    After being inspired by this thread I bought said gun

    Thought I’d have a go at making my own hamster

    B4221773-B2AF-492E-8E62-38AAF47D9981.jpeg

    C9213BBC-9A8D-43AD-9DD5-A0AD88424CBC.jpeg

    0700DF86-3FC0-4E16-8859-831ED1925778.jpeg

    6122DBF1-75B2-460D-A3FB-B3A64EDF840A.jpeg

    790AA747-6BE9-4A7C-AC89-F57C6B5F034D.jpeg

    Ignoring what I had lying around the garage - total cost £1.96

    Height can be adjusted by inserting different spacers/bolts
     
    Drake267 and jps norton like this.
  18. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Looks good :)

    Have you tried playing with the cheekpiece adjustment on yours? I reckon it'd be more comfortable if pushed over to one side a little ;)
     
  19. wsnaith

    wsnaith Donator

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    Not yet Mike

    I finish work in 2 weeks time so hoping to put it through its paces then
     
    cloverleaf likes this.
  20. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Not a lot to report of late really. I've continued to regularly take the LG to the range and used it to good effect in an inter-county team shoot at the back end of last year.. although I still don't really feel like I'm "gelling" with it too much tbh due to the less-than-stellar ergonomics, while the very loud muzzle report remains right on my tits.

    I did finally speak to Mr. Preston at Steyr UK regarding the damage to the muzzle and true to form he was very accomodating. As such I've just stuck the original barrel in the post today and eagerly await the arrival of its replacement. Unfortunately this situation isn't without it's share of anxiety as the other barrel shot well and I'm paranoid about getting a duffer in exchange - finger's crossed then..

    I was a bit concerned about removing the barrel but it came out with little fuss; the scope coming off nicely despite all the time spent initially getting the BKLs to fit properly.

    Extremely irritatingly and for apparently no good reason Steyr have seen fit to clamp the barrel at the front of the chassis. This somewhat convoluted setup consists of a slightly oversized, vertically elongaged hole in the chassis of around 16.3mm width by 17.0mm depth with a little protrusion / upstand at its bottom and a tapped hole above it that contains a flat-ended grub screw separated from the barrel by a white synthetic insert (presumably to avoid marking the finish). The barrel hole is significantly counter-bored to around 20.6mm from the front (giving the appearance of being free-floating) but it's not!

    [​IMG]

    The barrel was a little stiff to remove even with all the grub screws fully removed, on account of the drag exerted on it by the synthetic insert which stayed in place when its grub screw was removed. The barrel sits hard against the upstand when fitted, but will deflect upwards if the grub screw and plastic insert above are removed.

    I really can't get my head around why so many manufactures continue to insist on clamping their barrels, when there's overwhelming evidence that this can harm accuracy / cause POI shifts with varying temperature, cylinder pressure, stock loading etc.

    To further add to the absurdity Steyr happily allow the barrel of the Hunting 5 to flop about in the breeze; if they're content to do this on a hunting gun (that arguably would be expected to take more knocks) why not do the same on a target rifle?

    I know many owners float their LG's as a matter of course, however I resent having to modify a rifle of this cost to achieve something that should so easily have been done during design and manufacture. I could grind out the little upstand however there's no guarantee that this would allow the barrel to float; potentially requiring the elongated hole to be machined out to give a decent clearance around the barrel. I really can't see why Steyr couldn't just put a 19mm or so hole all the way through the chassis at the front with a groove to take an O-ring (or interrupted plastic insert if the cylinder got in the way) to prevent contact between the barrel and chassis if it did get knocked.

    Anway, rant over - I'll remain on tenterhooks until I've got the new barrel fitted and thoroughly tested!
     
    pbrown and milek like this.

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