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The Future Of Airgun Shooting In The Uk

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by cloverleaf, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. timmytree

    timmytree Keyboard Hero

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    Your fault for not getting a smart Alec lawyer on legal aid.
    Did you break the law because you couldn't care less?
    Or because you were trying to be a model dad and citizen?
    That's the difference.
     
  2. timmytree

    timmytree Keyboard Hero

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    They are the innocents, along with the rest of us who stand to lose out because of the morons. Just look at the cheaper end of the airgun market, aimed at easily swayed young people. You can get credit, delivered to your door. Mummy or some other adult supplies an address and the rifle is delivered. Far too easy.
    Years ago we could buy an air rifle or a shotgun from a catalogue, I did, but by then I was already buying my own home and old enough to go to war. More importantly, I knew what the law said and I respected it.
     
    TORNADOS7 likes this.
  3. PlinknHunt

    PlinknHunt Engaging Member

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    I wonder how many people here feeling uneasy about "Millitary" styled guns have no problems with Martini Henry style lever actions or Enfield like Bolters or even co2 revolvers which were all Millitary guns at some point.

    The difference is modern styling and technological improvements. Polymer is superior to wood. Adjustable stocks are superior to fixed stocks. Pistol grips are more comfortable. More rails means more customisation and affixing of gadgets and doo hickeys.

    Again, this willingness to throw others under the bus to protect what you like is just doing the antis work for them.
     
    Wild Bill likes this.
  4. Mr wolf

    Mr wolf Sad times

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    Love the logic.
    Remember when the stealth came out... tactiargument deja vu.

    Infighting and bickering on the forum seems to be the in thing lately, shame really... nobody needs to destroy our sport if we do a fine job of doing it ourselves
     
  5. TORNADOS7

    TORNADOS7 Pro Poster

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    More aggro than it was worth, know exactly what you mean, easier just to take the whack and have done with it...:thumb:
     
  6. brightopia

    brightopia Member

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    A lot of really interesting points. I guess what unites ALL shooters is the enjoyment of the process of pulling a trigger and hitting your target with ever improving accuracy and consistency - and only that - thereafter I suppose we all diverge in every which way because we all want to shoot different things at different targets…

    A military enthusiast tearing through the woods on an airsoft skirmish could be wildly different to someone who is well into their FT/HFT or ratting and sometimes those generalisations will all be the same person. I suppose for many, if there is an opportunity to own say a Crosman MTR77 NP or a G&G HB16 Airsoft they’ll take it and I can totally see the appeal for some.

    I suppose the unease with modern military styled guns being mentioned here is just that - an uncertainty of into the future how they might effect wider societies usually ill-informed understanding of air guns and how that can be exploited to further clamp down on the discipline of air gun shooting.

    It's just one aspect but I think the way those guns look (whatever comes out the end of the barrel) will make it easier for politicians and anti-gun campaigners to win support for their campaigns to introduce more draconian licensing on all airguns because these sort of arguments are never that nuanced. Black Ops style guns are - it could be said - more threatening and visually agressive than a more traditional rifle like a ProSport. You could say, modern military guns (or design classics like the ak-47) are what the public see all the time on the news/tv/film/on posters etc etc and that’s what they fear and thats what they don't want in their next door neighbours house and anti gun campaigners are constantly looking for that hook to tip the public over the edge.

    So maybe in terms of ‘the future of airgun shooting in the UK’ it’s less about if black-ops style guns are actually being widely misused or not, it’s about what the public think about guns in general once they understand what you can buy (and who can buy it) as it could all be used in the arguement to bring in further airgun restrictions.

    So no, I don’t think military styled air/airsoft guns alone will be the tipping point that doom current airgun legislation but they are a part of it. I think the rare tragic shootings of humans with airguns, property vandalism, a general dislike at the knowledge your neighbour is firing a gun in their garden and x-rays of swans riddled with shotgun shot and an air gun pellet it its head will have a bigger cumulative negative impact.

    With their potential to go viral on social media and reach people that otherwise wouldn’t think about any of this - photographs like the swan or negative shooting videos are maybe the biggest threat into the future and at that point a light would be shone on what is for sale in general. Then it all goes a bit shouty and bonkers. If a ground swell outcry in the public ever came I think it would most likey be this way and it would probably be the most random awful thing ever.

    People just don’t think about it that thoroughly - you can’t buy your children Nerf guns whilst preaching to them about how awful *real* guns are before settling down to watch or play the latest shoot-em-up then get your knickers in a twist about drill videos on youtube. It's just a snake eating it's own tail.

    But then, the UK has such a complex relationship with firearms and I’d agree the more they have been haphazardly restricted over the years the worse gun crime has got. There is no escaping that guns have never been more glorified in fiction and more hated in reality and the kinds of firearms that appeal to kids now are the black ops military ones which bodes as well and it does badly. They are relentlessly glamourised by the same society that wishes to ban them. Two sides of a spinning coin I suppose.

    On a slightly different tack, the brexit chaos - either good in that stricter airgun legislation goes on the back burner for a few years because frankly, who has the time, or bad in that they'll start passing all kinds of legislation under peoples noses whilst they are distracted and whacking on about the current political s***show - could go either way I suppose!
     
    wobbly bob, Davie82, GPConway and 2 others like this.
  7. Trampilot

    Trampilot Keyboard Hero

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    Public perception and misinformation/demonisation from the media has an awful lot of sway unfortunately.

    Yesterday was a story from Dunblane about a complaint that a new gunshop was opening close to THAT school. I did a look around on street view and also noticed a bookies, an off licence, a newsgent and loads of fast food shops. All of which do far more damage to society than a gunshop (gambling, alcoholism, pornography, obesity - diabetes).

    Even though the gunshop owner explained how strict the rules are the journalist still said "Air WEAPONS". The story isn't new though. The recent swan incident actually got first reported 3 weeks ago. Somebody clearly has an agenda.

    On the spin I watched Shane the other day. Stars Alan Ladd. There's a scene where he is teaching a young boy how to wear his gun. His mother catches them and says how she wished there were no more guns in the valley.

    Shane replies "A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that."

    This seems to have been lost under needless legislation and a fixation on inanimate objects.
     
  8. Sky

    Sky Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Be nice to one another gentleman; willy-waving, one one-upmanship and tit-for-tat point scoring nearly always leads to people falling out.
     
    brightopia likes this.
  9. Meteor62

    Meteor62 Major Poster

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    I’ve hardy dipped my toe in agf for the last month, have I missed something? What’s happening people? Are we being restricted?
     
  10. Davie82

    Davie82 Engaging Member

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    I'm broadly in agreement that a gun can be a tool and is only as good/bad as the person using it, however it's a difficult argument to maintain because guns (actual guns) were invented first and foremost as weapons, and they are lethal in a way that other tools simply are not. The very reason guns are so tightly controlled in the UK is because of their lethality, which is obviously far greater than knives, axes and shovels.

    As most of us already know, all this talk of "air weapons" is complete and utter nonsense... airguns do not meet the criteria to be considered weapons, but it's inevitable that they should be called such when you consider that the average person doesn't know the difference between an S510 and an M82A1.

    Despite being refused my AWL at the end of October, I'm fighting this ridiculous agenda tooth and nail. I'll admit that the future ain't looking too bright for you guys south of the border, and I'd say keep fighting with all you've got. It's bad enough in Scotland, but if it extends to the length and breadth of the UK then the proverbial will most definitely hit the fan.
     
  11. Sky

    Sky Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Don't panic - not yet. :)
     
  12. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Western Firearms collector

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    Well you can try and bury your head in the sand, but they are weapons whether we like it or not. At least in the eyes of most people. They are also firearms. Even co2 air pistols are firearms. And they do indeed meet the criteria to be considered air weapons.

    weapon
    /ˈwɛp(ə)n/
    noun
    1. a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage. Even to an animal.

    Unfortunately that is the way it is.
     
    Sky likes this.
  13. Davie82

    Davie82 Engaging Member

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    ^ I'm not burying my head in the sand. Dictionary definitions only go so far... you need context as well. Why are kitchen knives and meat cleavers not advertised as "Lethal Bladed Weapons" when we see them in the supermarket aisle? Because their intended use is for food preparation, not military combat or criminal violence. Similarly, air rifles are generally intended for sports and target shooting, and I'd guess a significantly smaller contingent of the community is using them for pest control, yet they are all branded as weapons regardless. Even on my application form to use my rifle specifically and exclusively for target shooting, the police insist on calling it a Lethal Barreled Weapon. Perhaps the police are troubled by a lack of representation in the paper and sheet metal target community.

    I want to buck the trend by insisting that we stop calling these guns weapons. We aren't going to see any change in prevailing opinion if we don't challenge these misconceptions.
     
    PlinknHunt likes this.
  14. Douglas Soal

    Douglas Soal Donator

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    Why would it be worst than Scotland in the rest of the U.K, at best it will probably be making trigger locks when buying compulsory, storing in a cabinet, which has not been defined, at worst on licence like yourselves. What do you know that we don’t.
     
  15. Davie82

    Davie82 Engaging Member

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    I didn't say it would be worse than Scotland. Just take what we have up here and imagine that in the whole of the UK, and you'll see a huge slump in new airgun sales. As Cloverleaf said in his OP, that's not going to have a positive impact on the scene at all.
     
  16. Douglas Soal

    Douglas Soal Donator

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    Seeing as the AWL has had a poor take up in Scotland with I believe 250,000 estimated guns in circulation, I don’t hold out much hope for any licence scheme in the rest of the U.K. with the police estimate of 6-7 million guns owned by 2-3 million people.
     
  17. Brock1Rgj

    Brock1Rgj Busy Member

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    Christ ! I'm gonna cut me bloody wrists ....the sad thing is Mike that you are absolutely correct .I agree ,food for thought.You just burst the comfy bubble that the illuminaty like to keep us in .
    Occasionally it needs someone to give us a smack in the chops to wake us up .
     
  18. wobbly bob

    wobbly bob Engaging Member

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    Not so. You are far more likely to die if someone knifes you than shoots you. I suspect it is the same for axes and shovels. It's about being up close and personal, and the kind of wound you can inflict.

    For all their glorification as killing weapons, guns are not actually that efficient.
     
  19. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    Really!
    I think I might take the 12 gauge or full bore rifle over the axe or the shovel if in a fight to the death even up close and personal.

    Both of those guns will make a hole about the size of a coffee mug in someone. Thumb sized on the way in their chest coffee mug size on the way out of their back.
    You can dodge or run away from a hand held weapon but not a gun, and the speed of use against multiple targets is dozens of times faster than any bladed weapon.
    The reason people are vetted carefully and have to have licences for guns, and you don’t need a shovel licence.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
    Sky likes this.
  20. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Western Firearms collector

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    Yeah right. :rolleyes:
     

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