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Steiner Scopes

Discussion in 'Technical' started by Eglwyseg, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Eglwyseg

    Eglwyseg Well-Known Member

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    For a variety of reasons I am considering upgrading the scope on my HW100 which presently has a low value generic scope 3-9 X 40.

    This afternoon I found myself looking at Steiner scopes with a 56 mm objective lens. I believe it is their Ranger series.

    Question? Cost apart, yes, they are very expensive but are these scopes suitable for my sub 12 ft/lb PCP air rifle HW100?

    Has anyone experience of these scopes?

    J
     
  2. jesim1

    jesim1 Big Poster

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    I'm not familiar with these, but after a quick look at the specs they are not suitable for sub 12fpe air rifles as they only parallax from 50m+, so they are not designed for close use and more for FAC at several hundred metres.

    Optics are a personal choice, a rough rule of thumb is spend 1/3 to 1/2 the price of the gun, a good scope by that standard would be in the £250 to £400 price range including things like Hawke Sidewinders/Airmax and Nikko "Stirling" offerings.

    With air gun scopes you could spend thousands on a top end scope and never be able to tell the difference at UK legal air gun ranges, but if you have the cash then why not? (but not the ones your looking at!) It's also worth pointing out that IMO scopes are getting better and cheaper, stuff I would not have bothered with 5 years ago is creeping up in quality, and now some of the "crap from China" is now quite usable:oops: Have a look through it and look at the specs, but a lot of the money is in light transmission and repeatability of the clicks along with holding zero - you cant tell this looking at it, but the more expensive ones are considerably better in that area.

    James
     
    foxtrott and milek like this.
  3. Eglwyseg

    Eglwyseg Well-Known Member

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    Thank you James. I've always understood parallax error in photography but like many shooters, I assume, I'm not too sure what it means in rifle scopes. It would appear the error can be corrected over a certain distance and as you say in the case of the Steiner Range scopes not till over 50 metres. In photography we used to correct parallax error *up to* about 40 feet then after that anything beyond was considered infinity so therefore not considered a problem? Applying this Steiner scope to my HW100 I thought as long as I zeroed in at say 25 metres on the elevation then that is all I would need do. However after reading other forums, though I haven't posted this question elsewhere, the view seems to be for sub 12/ft/lbs I already have the perfect scope 3-9 X 40, to remind you again.

    One of my reasons for wanting another scope, I have been a lifelong shooter but now find my eyesight degraded to a point I'm having problems discerning the target. Sadly, corrected vision with spectacles or contact lenses are of no use when cataract sets in. Probably need a visit to the optician and have the cataract removed. Many have said, it's like having their sight back after the operation so perhaps that would be my best route before lashing out dollops of money on new scopes.

    Cheers

    JH
     
  4. jesim1

    jesim1 Big Poster

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    Hi

    Think of parallax correction as "focus", so if a scope does not parallax below say 50m then it's always going to be out of focus at air gun ranges, so useless to us guys.

    AO - Adjustable Objective, or SF - side focus, are the ways in which any scope fitted with these adjustments allows you to accurately focus the image regardless of magnification, and in air gun friendly scope it's from around 9m/10yards to infinity.

    Something like these would give you a big leap in clarity and usability, you can spend as much as you like, but most scopes would be an upgrade from what you have now, especially due to your eyes, you can also save by going second hand, and the AO versions are cheaper than the SF versions:

    https://www.opticswarehouse.co.uk/product/hawke-vantage-4-12x40-ao-mil-dot-rifle-scope/

    https://www.opticswarehouse.co.uk/product/hawke-vantage-sf-ir-4-16x50-10x-half-mildot-riflescope/

    These are just examples, but the more you pay the better the quality/image and repeatability and hold of the zero - so a £100 is way better than a £30 scope, but not 3x as good if you get me?

    Best thing to do is go to a range or gun shop and get a look through a few as everyone has a personal preference with scopes.

    I hope that clarifies things a bit?

    James
     
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  5. Geezer

    Geezer Post Whore

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    Wow. Going from a “generic” (by which I assume cheap, maybe unbranded, £20-50) scope to a Steiner (£800) is the equivalent of going from an Argos bicycle to a Honda Fireblade.

    As James says above (I’d quibble with his definition of parallax as about focus, but, basically, the difference from photography is that cameras don’t have reticles - parallax error is not about focus as much as having a reticle that is actually on target, not just looks like it is on target, when it isn’t; it’s complex, and hard to explain), there are loads of scopes in the £100-200 range that are excellent on air guns at air gun ranges.

    I am not an eye doctor, but have known a few people with cataracts. I doubt that even the finest glass known to man can counteract the effect of eye problems.
     
  6. Rm29

    Rm29 Currently obsessed with silencers

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    If your having problems with your eyes possibly cataracts go to your optician. They will refer you to hospital. Do you have problems with glare at night?

    If it is cataract and they are causing you issues it will be removed.
     
  7. Eglwyseg

    Eglwyseg Well-Known Member

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    This is part of the problem, yes, cataracts in both eyes but poorer in my right eye, my shooting eye. My optician has prescribed new spectacles and new contact lenses and insists I don't need a cataract operation yet as with corrective lenses my eyes are considered 20 x 20 or in European terminology 6-6. Obviously the cataract is not 'corrected' with lenses only the focus. My optician says I am perfect and legal to drive and can carry on any other life activity which I do of course.

    The problem only manifests when I come to shooting. My old scope has never let me down till now but with a scope with more clarity it should help me get over the 'shooting' problem until a cataract operation is considered best Present scope is 3-9 X 40 with a 25 mm tube. This last week I have looked at scopes with 6-24 X 50 with a 30 mm tube and by 'eck they really are an improvement. The larger objective lenses and scope tubes make an enormous difference.

    I've looked at Steiner, Bauer, and Hawke but then discovered everyone of them had problems with parallax error adjustment for what I wanted them for. Both the Hawke and the Steiner 'started' adjustment at 100 metres out to over 500 meters while the Bauer had a static adjustment at 100 metres so all of them, it turns out, are definitely not suitable for an air rifle when hunting say, up to no more than 50 metres and more usually 25/35 metres. The scopes mentioned are fantastic pieces of optics if you wanted to hunt elk in North America but I'm here in good old Blighty with a sub 12 ft/lb air rifle.

    As an aside, there are 300,000 cataract operations annually alone in the UK. Depending on who you read, 95% are considered very successful while a few more percent report no real improvement while one percent report a failure and end worse off then before their operation. It appears the fails are always associated with other problems with the patients eyes. If your problem is confined to cataract alone you are guaranteed almost total benefit.

    Any way, thank you kindly for your comments.

    JH
     
  8. Eglwyseg

    Eglwyseg Well-Known Member

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    Hello again.

    You will see from my reply post to Rm29 in this thread I have been fairly busy looking at scopes this week.

    While I remember, I also understand parallax a lot better after your post and gleaning ever more knowledge as the days went by.

    I had an idea from one of my sons earlier in the week, "Why not have a look at the MTC Genesis"? I read up on it and watched a video on Utube presented by a Geordie who makes a heck of a good presentation not the usual blurb showing some anorak opening his box after the postman left . The Genesis is 6-24 X 50 and has a 30 mm tube. Also has an illuminated reticle with parallax error adjustment from 10 yards out to infinity, perfect for a UK non FAC air rifle. The Utube guy says the parallax adjustment will go below the 12 yards advertised. I'm really taken by it.

    I have bought it on Ebay and now on its way. And the best bit, a couple of hundred pounds cheaper than others I considered.

    Thank you all for your very constructive replies.

    JH
     
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  9. Eglwyseg

    Eglwyseg Well-Known Member

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    Oops!

    Sorry folks I must have looked at far too many scopes this past week. The MTC Genesis is of course, 5-20 X 50 and NOT 6-24 X 50 as stated above and forgot to mention, the illuminated reticle has 11 brightness settings plus off so one of them is bound to suit whatever the lighting conditions.

    Regards,

    JH
     
  10. jesim1

    jesim1 Big Poster

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    The MTC Genesis is a decent enough scope, but remember, different people see differently through different scopes if that makes sense? It's not always down to specification, some of it is just down to personal preference and if your eyes suit that particular scope.

    Hopefully you will get on well with your new scope, but if you don't, then don't give in or think that is it, there are plenty more fish in the sea!

    James
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
  11. Eglwyseg

    Eglwyseg Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes, roger that! Some of the top end scopes I viewed, though crystal clear optically and focused beautifully the reticle was almost invisible. MTC have what they call an AMD reticle, Advanced Mil Dot.

    What I didn't mention earlier was, my first son recommended MTC as he had borrowed his brothers' rifle one day which was fitted with a MTC Mamba Lite. First son couldn't get over just how bright and vital the Mamba was compared to his own! Many reviews report similar for the Genesis. We'll see.

    Thankfully both my sons are very keen shooters so their views are usually helpful.

    And yes again, plenty more fish as you say. If shove came to push then the dealer who sold me the scope promises money back if not delighted which seems a win, win to me though I hope I'm impressed with it enough to keep.

    Onward and upward anyone know the best scope/android/phone mount? I have a rather heavy Huawei P20 I would love to use on the new scope if it's feasible. I'll do a search on here just now, it may well have been covered previously.

    All the best.

    JH
     
  12. Eglwyseg

    Eglwyseg Well-Known Member

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    I thought it appropriate to give some feedback after the useful comments I received from you all regarding my earlier query.

    The MTC Genesis was a flop, image not very bright, adjustment wheels lose and grainy, flip lens cover at the objective was useless when applied to the objective lens sun barrel when fitted, as it just fell off. The seller willingly took it back without any bother having explained what I didn't like about it.

    Soon I took a proper look at the Hawke range of scopes, Endurance, Sidewinder, Vantage, Airmax and all, all impressive though didn't actually get one mounted, merely handheld to view the image.

    Then late one afternoon, I thought, what the heck, having viewed Hawke scopes and then viewed videos from shooters and not box openers I came round to think Hawke Frontier. Yes, I know, shot back up in price again but then? Looked from top to bottom of the web looking for the cheapest supplier of this £600 rig to fall upon the Utterings site. They were selling off their current range of Hawke Frontier 2.5-15 X 50 with LR dot reticle for £485. Ordered one there and then and it arrived weekend.

    It matches everything I could have wished! Image as bright as a polished brass button in all ranges right up to the edge. Parallax error adjustment starting from 10 yards [9 metres] up to infinity. Adjustments wheels though indexed, feel like silk, a delight. Not quite sure why Hawke have used heavy duty knicker elastic to hold the lens protection caps and not the flip variety but that has been put right as I have now ordered some flip caps. Just the centre of the reticle is illuminated with a variable brightness wheel.

    The whole scope simply oozes quality.

    There you have it folks, always worth a look around and seek advice when and where you can.

    Thank all again.

    JH
     
  13. jesim1

    jesim1 Big Poster

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    Glad your sorted, it's the whole point of being a forum member :thumb:
     

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