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Shot strings what are our guns really doing ? - pcp

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by spike589715, Apr 20, 2014.

  1. spike589715

    spike589715 Busy Member

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    Hi Guys
    I have been wondering for a while how standard guns from the factory are performing - what is the power output over the full shot string ? how flat is the power curve over the full shot range ?
    how well are non regulated airguns controling the shot to shot consistency ?
    The difference between shots
    Sometime you can see some shot strings that cover just a few shots - I am interested in a full string from a full charge until the power drops off .....

    manufactures don't seem to post this sort of thing ? Wonder why ?


    to this end I have tested a couple of guns so far a Hatsan AT 44 - .177 and a Pax Fast Fire 10 - .22

    the AT44 :-

    http://www.theywalkamongstus.co.uk/airguns/power outputs/at44.html

    The Fast Fire
    http://theywalkamongstus.co.uk/airguns/power outputs/fastfire.html


    How is this done ?
    I fit a Crombo crono in the usual way - the crono is connected to an Android phone which records every shot fired - so this works great on the plinking range - you just fire away as normal - this does not slow down plinking etc


    If anyone would like a full shot string from their gun - and are close to the lea valley club just have a chat to me on a Saturday - I would like to get a full list of guns and outputs

    If anyone has a full shot string from their gun I would be interested in posting on my site just mail me the numbers, though what I am really looking for is from manufactures recommended fill pressure until the power is dropping off not just the great ones in the sweet spot ....


    my web site is here - covers airguns and other hobbies !
    http://theywalkamongstus.co.uk/


    Cheers


    Simon
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  2. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

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    I had 3 shot strings (between 60 and 120 shots) from an AA S400,AA MPR and a regulated BSA Ultra,I will see if I can find them.
     
  3. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Excellent work and a great idea - fair play for doing all that with a Combro :D

    A few observations if I may:

    Making a note of the refill pressure will allow you to work out the average pressure drop per shot and better define the ideal fill pressure to start at your chosen "sweet spot".

    It's probably worth sticking to one "control" pellet for your tests as ammo choice can influence the results substantially - 8.44gn Exacts are popular, efficient and generally go well through most guns, so this is probably the best choice.

    The Hatsan looks nicely consistant if a little under-powered, while the FF10 is less consistant and evidently requires a much lower fill pressure than 220bar - note how the velocity is still rising after 100 shots.

    :)
     
  4. spike589715

    spike589715 Busy Member

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    Hi hi my thoughts in bold

     
  5. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

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    nearly everyone shoots Exacts or has a tin lying around,I will do some testing with my PCPs when I get time.
     
  6. PJHIZZLE

    PJHIZZLE Engaging Member

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    Keep us posted on the Android app please, I would definitely use this.

    atb
     
  7. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    ..

    Cool - good work on the chrono interface too - I had images of you resetting it every time for 100 shots :p

    The Hatsan looks a lot better now you've sorted the reg, although I do notice a small upward trend in velocity as pressure falls - perhaps this could be sorted with a bit of fiddling with the striker / reg pressure / porting?
     
  8. mark112

    mark112 Engaging Member

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    Hi,

    Have attached the 100 shot string I did for my .22 S410k last year. Filled to 190 bar and pressure after 100 shots was noted to be 90 bar. IIRC pressure drop was fairly uniform throughout the range although difficult to get 100% accurate readings from AA pressure gauge on the rifle. Rifle had new standard internals (hammer and pot springs and firing valve) but has had hammer rail polish job. Pot set to exactly 57mm.

    Hope it's of some use to you.

    Mark

    View attachment 94528
     
  9. spike589715

    spike589715 Busy Member

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    Hi Mark
    Fantastic just putting into the sheet now
    do you remember the pellets you were using ? and weight ?
    will be on my site soon
    Cheers
    Simon
     
  10. spike589715

    spike589715 Busy Member

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    hi hi yes it does drift up a little but to be honest I am very happy with the gun now .... It did need quite a bit of work from new but is really sweet now
    maybe I will look at levelling the string some day but at the moment I have some other projects so this will have to wait I think
    cheers
    si
     
  11. mark112

    mark112 Engaging Member

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    Sorry yes they were AA Diabolo Fields at 16 grains. I am pleased with this power curve as out of the 100 shots fired 94 fall within a 15fps band and 63 shots are available within 8fps at the 'sweet spot' (based on a 1.5% of maximum velocity value).
     
  12. jay5488

    jay5488 Donator

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    I've a full shot string from my BSA ultra unregulated but I have no way of connecting to my laptop or phone, I can type out the results if that's any good?????
    Shot string with JSB exacts in .177
     
  13. spike589715

    spike589715 Busy Member

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    Excellent !
    send any way you can - I will get the data in and on the site
    Cheers
    Simon
     
  14. spike589715

    spike589715 Busy Member

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    Hi
    on the web site now - thanks for helping !
    here it is
    http://theywalkamongstus.co.uk/airguns/power outputs/AAs410K22.html

    Cheers
    Simon
     
  15. mark112

    mark112 Engaging Member

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    Hi Simon,

    I reckon the S410k curve looks pretty good on your graphing tool!

    I have figures for my S400 Classic in .177 if they are any good to you. They are not from a full 190 bar charge though. They are from 170 bar as I found that from previous testing that higher pressures mean that power is down too much for my liking. I thought that they might be of some use until someone can post up a full 190 bar set though! The string covers 110 shots from 170 bar down to 90 bar. Shot using AA diabolo Fields in .177 (4.52mm flavour) 8.4 grain. As with my S410 has bog standard internals but polished hammer rail. I would imagine that the curve is exactlly the same polished or not. The shot-to-shot consistency 'should' be improved slightly though.

    Mark

    View attachment 94618
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
  16. spike589715

    spike589715 Busy Member

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    Hi Mark
    it is a great shot string for an un regulated gun better than the Hatsan ! Wonder if is typical for 22 to have better curves than 177 ?
    Thanks for the string I will use that one as well
    great to get strings from as many guns as possible
    cheers
    simon
     
  17. mark112

    mark112 Engaging Member

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    As I wrote before I don't think that the hammer rail polish affects the shape of the curve itself just the consistancy between shots (unless someone knows otherwise!). Maybe It's just the right combination of hammer spring rate to valve spring rate that makes the curve fairly flat across most of the charge. I think it was cloverleaf that once said to me that .22s were better for this. Certainly I would love my .177 S400 to have a similar curve. They are set up with identical internals yet have different power curves. Will work on it when I get chance but as the sun is out more and more then so am I. In fact off to the farm now! Keep up the good work. I'll try to dig out the curve from my Mk1 logun Rifle. That's a very different shape ... Dolly Parton's left one springs to mind.:)

    Mark
     
  18. spike589715

    spike589715 Busy Member

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    Thanks Mark
    pages updated
    http://theywalkamongstus.co.uk/airguns/power outputs/power outputs.html

    Cheers
    Simon

     

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