1. The Forum Rules have undergone some minor changes and updates.  Please take the time to read them; it will only take a couple of minutes of your time. By doing so, you lessen the chance of incurring the wrath of the moderation team or making yourself look foolish to other members.

    90% of users posting adverts in the Sales forums need to be reminded to read the rules as their posts are wrong.  This is unnecessarily time-consuming and will no longer happen - if your advert doesn't follow the Sales Rules it will be deleted and you'll have to start all over again.

    To close this box once you've read it (and the Rules), click on the X in the top right-hand corner.

    Thank you.

    AGF Staff



    Dismiss Notice
  2. A reminder of one of the Forum Rules:

    'Behaviour

    Do not make inappropriate or offensive posts - including threats, harassment, swearing, prejudice, defamation, deliberate insults or name-calling, other negative remarks about this forum, its moderators and administrators or your fellow members. Even if this is just your own personal opinion, RESPECT YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS.'

    There have been changes made to our censoring software in an attempt to help with this growing problem.

    Click the X in the top-right-hand corner to dismiss this notice.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Dear members,

    Our membership (like our country) consists of people from all walks of life; different in far more ways than can be listed here and each with a different view based on their experience of life - regardless of their colour, religion or cultural heritage. Every single person in the UK has been born of mixed race – we are a multi-coloured and multi-cultural country.

    As many of you are aware there are a handful of individuals amongst this membership that persist in making provocative, inflammatory, racist and otherwise offensive comments. This has been happening across the forum to a certain degree but is most especially prevalent in the Adult section.

    The moderation team has tried to stay on top of this, however unfortunately because of the ‘offensive’ nature of much of its content we don’t monitor the Adult section quite as much as perhaps we should. As a result much of this behaviour has gone unnoticed unless it has been reported to us. While the team always intended to take a "light touch" approach to the Adult section it would seem that some people aren’t quite adult enough to be left unmonitored after all.

    This behaviour is, and always has been against Forum Rules as well as the specific stipulations of the Adults forum and it will no longer be tolerated. We feel it's time to draw a line in the sand and as such from this point onward offenders will receive an immediate and permanent ban from the forum.

    In order for us to achieve our goal of restoring the forum to the friendly and tolerant place it once was, we ask that ALL members be mindful of the content they post and help us to stop unacceptable behaviour by using the 'Report' tool at the bottom of any offending post - the results of which can be seen only by Admin/Moderators.

    You should all receive a copy of this message by PM. 

    To close this message box, click on the 'X' in the top-right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Hotmail block emails from us entering your inbox. Unless you can setup a safe sender you will not get activation emails from the forum. Please use an alternative provider or complain to Hotmail.
    Hotmail addresses include.

    @Hotmail.co.uk @Hotmail.com @outlook.com @Live.com
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Postings on Politics, Religion & Controversial Off-Topic Material

    The majority of users do not want to read about these subjects and people have left the forum as a result of it – this is after all an 'Airgun' Forum. It’s all very well to say they don’t have to read it if they don't want to, but as most of us use the ‘New Posts’ button there is no easy way to avoid it.

    All AGF staff members are in favour of people being able to discuss what they want, but we have to draw the line somewhere if it is upsetting other users. We don’t want to read about these topics either.

    IMPORTANT- The discussion of politics and religion is no longer allowed anywhere on the forum (including the Adult section).  The only exception is if it's airgun related - they must be put in the Airgun Related Politics section..

    We will not tolerate bullying or personal attacks, racism or any other offensive 'isms'. we will remove these topics from the forum, we will not give you an area where you can abuse each other. We will not hesitate to ban offenders.

    To clear this text box, click on the 'X' in the top right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice

Question Shooting at different distances with an open sight pistol?

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by Dag, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. Dag

    Dag Very Active

    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    Nr Leatherhead, Surrey
    Having just bought an HW45 I have been giving some thought to the issue of shooting at targets at different distances. When using my rifle I can make allowances by mildots or if changing for a period of time adjusting with clicks on the turret. With an open sight pistol would I be right in thinking it might be a good idea to zero at say 20yds and then by trial and error see what difference in POI there is at different distances eg 10 and 30yds? Or do you stay at close range and make visual allowances in one direction only?
    Until I get to the club on Wednesday I will be restricted to the garage and garden and don't really want to start adjusting the factory setting, which I assume will be for approx 10yds, until I get some advice here.I have to say that as there is a considerable noise made by the HW45 I would prefer to have the gun settle down before I shoot in the garden.
    Any advice most welcome,
    Dag
    View attachment 94228
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  2. oliver13

    oliver13 Donator

    Messages:
    1,149
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Lairg
    I think because of the effect of recoil on a spring pistol the trajectory of a pellet is much more marked than if it had been fired from a more stable barrel, it's more curved if that makes sense? I suspect it's basically the same curve, just amplified.
    The range of hold over & under is much bigger, so in the first case just leave it at 10M or whatever & work out the POI on paper targets at the various ranges & see what you think, I don't think Chairgun would be much use here...
     
  3. Dag

    Dag Very Active

    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    Nr Leatherhead, Surrey
    Thanks for the advice, yes a large paper target with a single cross and progressively moved forward from 10m might be a start. Your comment re Chairgun is well made. The only info it appeared it might help me with, once I get the gun settled and chronoed, was the chart for pellet Drop from LOD, which I assume is the line of a horizontal barrel. As a guide only that should give some idea of the height above the zero aiming point I should be looking for at each distance. A practical session should be more meaningful though!
    Dag
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  4. Dunkman

    Dunkman Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,678
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Monmouth
    The trajectory will be the same, regardless of recoil flipping the barrel up. It is at what angle is barrel pointing at when the pellet leaves the muzzle that determines where it will land but in day to day use (ignoring shooting radically uphill or downhill) the trajectory curve will be the same.

    The main difference is that a pistol is shooting at circa 5 f/lbs has such a low pellet velocity that the pellet drop and resultant curve makes shooting beyond 10m a real skill to do accurately. Personally I would zero a pistol for 10m and enjoy punching paper target and then get used to extending the range and the resultant hold over required which for open sights means keeping the front sight on the target and lower the back end of the pistol and rear sight to give the required holdover. You cant raise the aim point of the front sight as it will obscure the target as you raise the barrel.
     
  5. Dag

    Dag Very Active

    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    Nr Leatherhead, Surrey
    Thanks for your advice. At first I thought they were the same but of course are completely different ways of aiming and yes the latter would obscure the target. I guess if one works out the pellet drop they might find it an accepatable alternative though...but I'll practice both.

    Now, progress so far. Yesterday evening I took the gun out to the garden and because of the dieselling which is occurring ( are they always like that to start? It seems to be lasting longer than I would have thought. ) I was unable to shoot in the garden at 10m for fear of upsetting neighbours. Having set up the 17cm target in a brand new holder with duct seal as a target backing I retreated to the depths of the garage and at 18yds started shooting with it for the first time.

    I was amazed at how consistent it was as I assumed I'd miss half the shots at the target. As it turned out I think only two shots missed the target holder completely, two hit the bottom of the holder and the rest were within the target outer circle. After about 20 shots I popped another target over the first and finished off the evenings shooting with a 10 pellet sesssion.

    I am really impressed with how comfortable the HW45 is to hold and aim and was impressed with how well I did at a longer range than I thought I would start at and how many shots were in the black.
    I attach the first target which of course has the results of the whole session and the second target with 10 shots in it. For info I also attach a piccy of the duct seal backing w2hich worked a treat at reducing impact sound.

    All shots apart from the first 4 or 5 were at full power. I didn't find the half setting enough for comfortable shooting at 18yds but that might just be me.
    Overall I am so impressed with the quality and handling of this gun! :up:
    Dag

    View attachment 94229 View attachment 94230 View attachment 94231
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  6. terry1001

    terry1001 Major Poster

    Messages:
    8,503
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    Location:
    Ipswich
    Shooting a pistol with open sights does have its challenges, the distance between the front and rear sights is quite small so any errors are magnified. The normal sight picture to look for is to have the circular bull sitting on top of the front sight, I always preferred to have a narrow strip of white visible as well. This should be the set up for your normal range, for longer range you can aim at the centre (although that's not so easy to do consistently) and for shorter range you can allow a bit more white under the bull.
    For shooting at targets such as steel plates you would use a different sight picture for a central hit at a 'normal' range and just aim slightly higher or lower as required at different ranges. Obviously Chairgun can give you a pointer as to the difference in drop at various ranges but practice is the best way forward.
    Pistol shooting is much more challenging than using a rifle and very satisfying once you start to get the hang of it.
     
  7. Prosport.22

    Prosport.22 Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    66
    Location:
    Near Cardiff, South Wales
    Hw 45 awesome guns, so good i have 3!....
     
  8. OzzyJ

    OzzyJ Donator

    Messages:
    2,396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Aylesbury
    I cheat and have an Alecto. One pump dead on at 10m two pumps pretty much dead on at 20m. Great for HFT - shot 50/60 on sunday and cleared three lanes of five:)
     
  9. oliver13

    oliver13 Donator

    Messages:
    1,149
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Lairg
    True, I take your point & can't argue with it, if I still had a Gat or an SP50 I could really look into the effects of recoil...
     
  10. Tinbum

    Tinbum Delusions of adequacy

    Messages:
    3,695
    Likes Received:
    2,229
    Location:
    At the lathe
    I found that the recoil dropped when I fitted a kit in it. Just stripping, degreasing and polishing will have an effect though.
     
  11. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

    Messages:
    6,195
    Likes Received:
    141
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Dag,you could try that with the 45,half cock it and zero at ten yards then full cock it and see where it's zerod then.
     
  12. Dag

    Dag Very Active

    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    Nr Leatherhead, Surrey
    At the range this afternoon so have made up some 10" high x 6" wide cross targets with 1" steps and will give that a try. I'll post how I get on tonight.
    Thanks
    Dag
    ps I assume it's early days for the gun to be at full potential as it has only had about 100 pellets through it. Nevertheless it'll be an interesting exercise.
     
  13. Dag

    Dag Very Active

    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    Nr Leatherhead, Surrey
    Unfortunately I didn't get round to doing that yesterday as I concentrated on using my TX200 and had anice little try of Pipeman's .22 rim fire. Great fun that and with the club having some that I can use I'll try and get signed off to use them as well.

    Back to the HW45, and this afternoon I used it solely on half power and found that using RWS Hobbys I was getting consistent shots zeroed on target at 13yds. Tomorrow I'll try using full power at 18yds in the garage to garden and see how that compares. I was not that impressed using half power the other day but felt more comfortable with it today. For now I am not going to touch the rear sight.

    One question for HW45 users: do Weihrauch make the barrels tight? An odd question perhaps, but I am having to really press the Hobbys hard to go lower than the shoulder for fear of damaging the breech 'O' ring. In fact some are so tight going in that I am using a golf tee to seat them. Has anyone else found this or could it just be oversize pellets?
    Dag
     
  14. Ichabod Armacost

    Ichabod Armacost Donator

    Messages:
    950
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Tinbucktoo
    I think some of you folks should watch this, to see what a decent pistol can do in competent hands, there is nowt wrong with the HW45, that a bit (a lot) of practice wont sort out.:)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlGLGoKzO3w
     
  15. Dag

    Dag Very Active

    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    Nr Leatherhead, Surrey
    Having bought the HW45 already I assumed you wanted me to read the comments that were attached to the video and found this which somewhat answers the question I had re RWS Hobbys. Thanks Ichabod!

    "oh DO NOT use rws hobby pellets in this gun. They don't seat completely and will damage the breech seal very fast."
    followed by this reply:
    " I find they seat fine with a light push - a lot of other pellets I tried seem a little loose, with poor results accuracy-wise. I think the skirting on RWS pellets is ever so slightly larger than some, which helps a lot in some barrels (see my other video of the HW77K, where I am using RWS Hobbys in .22 for the same reason). As for the breach seal; by virtue of having to push in the pellets by hand you can easily feel if the pellet is fully inserted into the end of the barrel."

    I'll try some other pellets in it later today
    atb
    Dag
     
  16. Dag

    Dag Very Active

    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    Nr Leatherhead, Surrey
    I've now tried variety of pellets all of which seem more difficult to seat than other guns and some which are of a harder material than others definitely take a push with a golf tee to seat.
    This has got me wondering whether it is a bore diameter issue or just a lack of choke.
    If it is the latter I'm thinking it shouldn't be too difficult to ease the barrel entry to allow any pellet to sit deeper. It is just a question of thinking what to use to something with a .177 taper to do the job.
    Alternatively if it ends up that harder pellets need to be resized I'm wondering what peeps use when they talk about pushing pellets through a resizing device? Or do they roll them betweeeen two surfaces?
    Any suggestions welcome
    Dag:confused:

    PS I'm starting another thread as this does not seem to fit "shooting through open sights"
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014
  17. Dag

    Dag Very Active

    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    Nr Leatherhead, Surrey
    Not quite the way round that Matty suggested but good fun anyhow!:
    I had the first real opportunity to do some serious target shooting on a 20m range at the club yesterday. I knew the HW45 was factory zeroed at 10m but wanted to see how it fared at a longer range.

    I was absolutely hopeless to start with in using the one-handed style and missed the entire target most of the time until with further sight adjustment I began to hit the bottom of the target.
    I changed targets ,made a small sight adjustment and began to get much nearer to the bull using the isosceles stance. Then a charming lady started using a rimfire near to me and I decided to stop.
    However I was pretty impressed with what the HW45 could do at that distance and the next step is to set up the 10m range with targets and using half power see how that works out and what allowance I need to make when changing from one to the other.
    My last target, at 20m , is attached:
    Dag
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Dag

    Dag Very Active

    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    Nr Leatherhead, Surrey
    I haven't got down to the range yet but have had the opportunity to shoot from the garage into the garden over a distance of exactly 10m. Even at half power I find I am hitting the target at about 4" above the aim point. Today I have been shooting in the garage as it's so miserable outside. Diagonally the distance is 6.5m and the pellet is fairly consistently hitting about 3" above the point of aim.
    I have adjusted the rear sight down to the lowest point it will go to so have no further adjustment. Ok, I can live with the need to allow for the difference but when aiming at non standard targets eg targets with images of rabbits etc it would be nice to have the ability to aim at the point you wish to hit. Is it something I have to live with or is there some way I can increase the rear sight depression?
    Dag
     
  19. oliver13

    oliver13 Donator

    Messages:
    1,149
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Lairg
    No, but you might be able to cobble together some way to extend the foresight & make it higher.
     
  20. Dag

    Dag Very Active

    Messages:
    4,735
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    Nr Leatherhead, Surrey
    Nice one Oliver! I couldn't see any adjustment but I guess it is replaceable and therefore possibly modifiable. Perhaps even an attachment to go on the dovetail groove? Maybe there is a market for this? Can I see myself making millions?;)
    I will have a look at that today and let you know what comes up.
    Has anyone else done this or had the same issue?
    Dag
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice