1. The Forum Rules have undergone some minor changes and updates.  Please take the time to read them; it will only take a couple of minutes of your time. By doing so, you lessen the chance of incurring the wrath of the moderation team or making yourself look foolish to other members.

    90% of users posting adverts in the Sales forums need to be reminded to read the rules as their posts are wrong.  This is unnecessarily time-consuming and will no longer happen - if your advert doesn't follow the Sales Rules it will be deleted and you'll have to start all over again.

    To close this box once you've read it (and the Rules), click on the X in the top right-hand corner.

    Thank you.

    AGF Staff



    Dismiss Notice
  2. A reminder of one of the Forum Rules:

    'Behaviour

    Do not make inappropriate or offensive posts - including threats, harassment, swearing, prejudice, defamation, deliberate insults or name-calling, other negative remarks about this forum, its moderators and administrators or your fellow members. Even if this is just your own personal opinion, RESPECT YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS.'

    There have been changes made to our censoring software in an attempt to help with this growing problem.

    Click the X in the top-right-hand corner to dismiss this notice.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Dear members,

    Our membership (like our country) consists of people from all walks of life; different in far more ways than can be listed here and each with a different view based on their experience of life - regardless of their colour, religion or cultural heritage. Every single person in the UK has been born of mixed race – we are a multi-coloured and multi-cultural country.

    As many of you are aware there are a handful of individuals amongst this membership that persist in making provocative, inflammatory, racist and otherwise offensive comments. This has been happening across the forum to a certain degree but is most especially prevalent in the Adult section.

    The moderation team has tried to stay on top of this, however unfortunately because of the ‘offensive’ nature of much of its content we don’t monitor the Adult section quite as much as perhaps we should. As a result much of this behaviour has gone unnoticed unless it has been reported to us. While the team always intended to take a "light touch" approach to the Adult section it would seem that some people aren’t quite adult enough to be left unmonitored after all.

    This behaviour is, and always has been against Forum Rules as well as the specific stipulations of the Adults forum and it will no longer be tolerated. We feel it's time to draw a line in the sand and as such from this point onward offenders will receive an immediate and permanent ban from the forum.

    In order for us to achieve our goal of restoring the forum to the friendly and tolerant place it once was, we ask that ALL members be mindful of the content they post and help us to stop unacceptable behaviour by using the 'Report' tool at the bottom of any offending post - the results of which can be seen only by Admin/Moderators.

    You should all receive a copy of this message by PM. 

    To close this message box, click on the 'X' in the top-right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Hotmail block emails from us entering your inbox. Unless you can setup a safe sender you will not get activation emails from the forum. Please use an alternative provider or complain to Hotmail.
    Hotmail addresses include.

    @Hotmail.co.uk @Hotmail.com @outlook.com @Live.com
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Postings on Politics, Religion & Controversial Off-Topic Material

    The majority of users do not want to read about these subjects and people have left the forum as a result of it – this is after all an 'Airgun' Forum. It’s all very well to say they don’t have to read it if they don't want to, but as most of us use the ‘New Posts’ button there is no easy way to avoid it.

    All AGF staff members are in favour of people being able to discuss what they want, but we have to draw the line somewhere if it is upsetting other users. We don’t want to read about these topics either.

    IMPORTANT- The discussion of politics and religion is no longer allowed anywhere on the forum (including the Adult section).  The only exception is if it's airgun related - they must be put in the Airgun Related Politics section..

    We will not tolerate bullying or personal attacks, racism or any other offensive 'isms'. we will remove these topics from the forum, we will not give you an area where you can abuse each other. We will not hesitate to ban offenders.

    To clear this text box, click on the 'X' in the top right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice

Semi-autos, cartels, agendas and the future of our sport - please join me in supporting the BASC

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by cloverleaf, May 30, 2015.

  1. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    17,631
    Likes Received:
    13,992
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    We all know that things are getting a bit heated with respect to the legality of semi-auto air rifles, and that it seems as though certain elements within our sport are seeking to coerce the Home Office into deeming them illegal, for no other reason than to suit their own questionable agenda.

    No matter how you feel about semi-autos this current issue potentially runs a lot deeper than the legality of one type of airgun. Semi-autos arguably represent the "thin end of the wedge" (or more likely the slightly fatter end of the wedge since the thin end has already gone with the introduction of anti-tamper :mad:).

    This group already appears to be doing a very good job of manipulating the market (for their own ends and to everyone else's cost) through their unyielding pressure on manufacturers and importers to fit their ill-conceived anti-tamper measures; allegedly using bully-boy tactics upon those who do not submit to their demands despite the fact that AT has absolutely no basis in law.

    With this latest attack on semi-autos this self-appointed, solely self-interested group appears to be pushing for even more control within the industry/sport, as well as seeking the ability to influence/dictate the law - something they have absolutely no legitimate right to do IMO.

    Allowing certain parties to poke the hornet's nest and ride roughshod over everyone elses interests to suit their own will only strengthen their position and allow them to take more liberties with our sport in the future to further line their own pockets. Today semi-autos are on the hit list. Tomorrow it could be CO2 pistols. Or multi-shot rifles. Or PCP rifles in general. Or something else you might care about...

    I fear that if we don't send a strong, collective message to these parties that we won't stand to have our rights trampled in the name of their lust for control, we are giving them the silent nod to continue quietly destroying our sport from the inside for the sake of their own greed.



    The British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) has long done a stirling job of standing up for the rights of all British shooters, and will fight for our rights on any issue we care strongly enough about.

    If, like me you're disgusted by the idea of a cartel within the industry dictating what we may and may not purchase, who we may purchase it from and how much we should pay, I implore you to join the BASC, and let them know your reasons for doing so. If you're and existing member (or even not a member at all) please take 5 minutes to inform them of your concerns here.

    It only needs to be a couple of lines stating something along the lines of:

    You're welcome to copy and paste if you're lazy like me ;)

    Even if you're unconcerned by the current situation (which IMO all airgun shooters should be very worried about), there's no question that shooting is under constant attack from many directions and that we're best placed to fight these attacks if we can all stand united behind one very capable body.

    IMO the cost of joining the BASC is very reasonable (£50/yr for airgun membership, £72/yr for full membership) and membership brings a wealth of benefit including legal advice and support, insurance and various other perks. It is my sincere belief that the BASC represent by far the most legitimate, unbiased and capable hope we have of protecting our sport now and in the future. Showing your support and taking a step towards safeguarding the future of something you love seems like a no-brainer for the relatively minor cost of 4 or 5 tins of pellets :)

    I've long admired the BASC and have been meaning to become a member for a long time. This week I finally joined to show my support - for the sake of the sport as a whole please consider doing the same.

    Behind the dark forces within the trade our biggest enemy is apathy - sadly burying our heads in the sand will not make this issue go away.

    Apologies again for another essay (albeit a very important one this time) and thanks for reading :)
     
  2. bigtoe

    bigtoe Donator

    Messages:
    910
    Likes Received:
    55
    Location:
    Stockport
    Great post....should be on the front page of the BASC's website imo ;)
     
  3. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    17,631
    Likes Received:
    13,992
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Thanks Tony - high praise indeed :D


    I'd just like to add (before anything kicks off) that this post is intended solely as a call to arms in the name of protecting our sport - other threads are available for arguing the ins and outs of the semi-auto debate ;)

    While (as always) I really appreciate forum support through "Thanks" and "Likes" of my post; on this occasion I'm not the one who needs it - please, please get in touch with the BASC; offer your support and make your feelings known.

    I know this subject is not as interesting as discussing the latest rifle from whoever, which new scope you should buy or (god forbid) whether .177 or .22 is "better", but it's potentially a hell of a lot more important!
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  4. Tinbum

    Tinbum Delusions of adequacy

    Messages:
    3,579
    Likes Received:
    1,939
    Location:
    La belle France!
    I totally agree with you, if you're not a member take a serious look.
     
  5. Titchgamer

    Titchgamer Honorary Member

    Messages:
    17,001
    Likes Received:
    332
    Location:
    Telford
    Just a thought may be worth starting one of them online patitions? They seem very popular these days but someone needs to write a compeling reason for it.
    So for that reason ime out as I am pants at that sort of stuff :p
     
  6. katluke

    katluke Donator

    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    399
    Location:
    Sunderland
    I agree,if nothing else we need clear clarification on the S/A guns and also other matters within the airgun industry need addressing such as a test pellet for each calibre of gun .


    BASC member and have contacted them.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  7. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    17,631
    Likes Received:
    13,992
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Nice idea guys; my only concern is that (given the sensitivity of the situation) we might be better off leaving the lobbying of the HO to the professionals.. as we all know "clarification" or changes to law usually only go in one direction with respect to firearms (i.e. against us :().
     
  8. neil82

    neil82 Busy Member

    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    61
    Location:
    north wales
    while I totally agree that any lobbying should be left to those more qualified to do it, if said professionals are those that are the ones currently doing `such a good job defending our sport`we may as well chop our guns up and weigh them in for scrap
     
  9. katluke

    katluke Donator

    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    399
    Location:
    Sunderland
    The " cartel " involved in trying to ban these S/A guns can clearly not have realised that there actions could have caused such a back lash from the airgun community. We dont know yet who was at this meeting with the HO but we will do eventually. All I can say is who ever was at this meeting abusing there power to push for a ban will never see another penny from me,I will not buy any products from them or anything endorsed by them and most of the people Ive spoke to have said the same thing.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  10. audi swift

    audi swift Man up & pull the bloody trigger.... HFT 101.

    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes Received:
    1,092
    Location:
    Live in Stoke On Trent. But i visit Bromsgrove.
    message sent.
    on a side note I buy some hardware from the EU these days, I only buy SOME dear things from the EU not all my things as that would be silly.
    plus we have to keep UK dealers \ traders going after all.

    because a few of the companies i.e. importers / distributors who control the UK market are just all about silly mark ups & profit ( rip off us the public as much as they like because they don't care want is best for us etc in the long run or the long term ).if the UK dealers would or even if they could lower there prices to come in line all most with the EU then I would buy from the UK again.

    I have been reading a LOT of threads about these semi autos, as its a start to a bad thing for us uk airgun shooters....
    we will not take much more cr@p off the powers that be who control the UK markets & from what I can read & make sense of, the fat cats just want more money there end & sod us the public.
    hence now they are trying or have changed the laws & rules to suit themselves, but other things have now come to light & it WILL have a knock on effect against other air guns etc.
    they are shooting themselves in the foot so to speak, as they have forgot or they don't really care that we can & will stop buying UK hardware & go elsewhere as long as we can that is.

    we need a real spoke person\s ie basc. not these so called ones who have started all this mess........

    PS POWER TO THE PEOPLE....... ( us the public )



    hope this makes sense..... kenny
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  11. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    17,631
    Likes Received:
    13,992
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    To be fair though, who is actually, legitimately defending our sport? Arguably those who shout loudest about their defense of the sport (a certain magazine editor, forum administrator and AMTA member / sympathiser) are subject to a massive conflict of interests and in reality are only defending one agenda - their own.

    IMO the only people we can really trust are the BASC. Not the mags, AMTA, BASA or any other tinpot organisation using the defence of the sport as a conveinient argument to veil the pursuit of their own agenda.


    Absolutely; although it always pays to remember that the "thinking" airgunner is in the minority - the number of informed club and forum members is tiny compared to the thousands of hunters and plinkers who are quite happy to bury their heads in the sand and get on with it. Until the man comes knocking, of course..

    These are the people we need to reach, educate and motivate.


    Thanks for your support!

    I feel an important distinction needs to be made here - it seems that the primary p*ss-takers are the importers / distributors - I can tell you as fact that if UK dealers lowered their prices to compete with EU sources they'd be operating at a considerable loss on each sale.

    Again, it pays to remember that the savvy buyer making the choice to buy from Europe represents only a small percentage of the buying UK public. Most punters are probably wholly unaware of the possibility of private import; so as much as I applaud your argument for boycotting UK sources in principal, in practice I think it has limited viability..


    Thanks again to all who've contributed so far :)
     
  12. norman

    norman Donator

    Messages:
    4,470
    Likes Received:
    1,589
    Location:
    Derbyshire
    Ditto what you have said....there's a LOT OF PEOPLE waiting to see who was at that meeting....i'm a collector so not directly affected but I hate being "railroaded" by anyone...more power to you lads...:thumb:
     
  13. Blackmax

    Blackmax Forum Rude Guy

    Messages:
    6,521
    Likes Received:
    5,297
    Location:
    Rayleigh
    Mike,
    Spot on mate, I agree we need to make a stand.

    I've put a stop on my DD to the BASA a month ago in protest and I've subscribed myself and my lad to BASC airgun membership.

    I'll also be approaching the BASC about the unwanted interference regarding SA and AT.
     
  14. Harwich Shooter

    Harwich Shooter Donator

    Messages:
    1,626
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Brantham near the Mud
    I am a BASC member. Just logged into the members area and fired off the note to the Chief exec. :) Every little helps.

    Ever seen T***y D*e in the same room as Seb Blatter. No thought not;

    ;)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  15. Shoto1

    Shoto1 Donator

    Messages:
    9,280
    Likes Received:
    5,611
    Location:
    London
    Well done Mike ~ well constructed argument / presentation of the facts.

    I have contacted BASC; I hope many others will also do. :up:
     
  16. Cam.

    Cam. Registered

    Messages:
    1,700
    Likes Received:
    459
    Location:
    Southport
    Firstly, I want to say that I very much doubt that I would buy a sub 12 fpe semi automatic air rifle! Why? Because I have a wife and 17 yo son (oh, and a dog)!

    Shooters need to unite! It doesn't matter what one legally shoots. IMO, all legal shooting disciplines are to be equally respected. I am passionate about the role of the air gun in the sport of shooting.

    Mr cloverleaf is absolutely spot on about the need to join BASC. More air gunner members in BASC, will mean more representation for air gunners!

    Join BASC, then lobby!
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  17. chevin

    chevin Keyboard Hero

    Messages:
    2,785
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    the Wedge Staffs
    I strongly beleive in BASC and as a member always give them my support and vote's on shooting matters, as lot of members on here are serious airgunner's I would also ask you to consider becoming a member, we need to do everything we can to protect our sport for the future.
     
  18. Jeepsey

    Jeepsey Member

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Runcorn
    I've added some cash to the BASC war chest, let's hope a lot of others do too.
     
  19. evenbad

    evenbad Busy Member

    Messages:
    893
    Likes Received:
    141
    Location:
    Neath
    Will keep this post on topic not SA, BASC represent us air rifle shooters and we can make our presence strongly felt by having our sport protected by them. Hope we get to the bottom of the LEGALITY MEETING GTA had with HO and see what really went on. Name and shame I say as for buying within the EU lots of people will and have made considerable savings , the flood gates are open and GTA are just trying to impose further restrictions not lift the existing out of date ones which we all must abide by!! Power to the people!!!!
     
  20. AlsoFishes

    AlsoFishes Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Horta
    First let me say that I am not resident in GB any more so don't really feel like I should interfere, OTOH I still pay some $%^ing tax in GB and have just been ripped off by ParcelForce!

    I think BASC has done a fairly good job but really needs to crank up a few gears and take the fight to them publicly.
    We should not be "defending" the sport but be on the offensive, by that I mean the following tacks:

    British women can't use guns!
    Are Brits too stupid to have proper target pistols like other Europeans?
    Has British government failed so much in building a responsible society that it needs to ban 22lr target pistols used to compete by most other countries in the world?
    Restrictive gun laws are a sign of a failed society!

    Imagine slogans like that on posters of "foreigners" happily competing in the Olympics with such hi tech pistols on one side and a brit with a 20 quid chinese spring pistol on the other.


    Joe and more importantly, Joanna Bloggs out there need to feel they're really missing out on something. They need to feel that there is something wrong with the Government for letting GB fall behind like this. They need to be jealous of women from other countries being able to shoot pistol and them being denied.
    What's needed is an in-the-face advertising campaign, BY PROFESSIONALS, targeted at women, that really stirs it up because the softly-softly approach hasn't worked, has it!
    Starting a fashion of wearing clothes with the names of gun makers instead of limp-wristed designers is another one.
    I think pistol target shooting sports (not hunting) need to be promoted bigtime in the mainstream media and with billboard posters, to women!
    Petitions and demos are a waste of time. Unless demos are outside the houses of Politicians they simply don't give a stuff.

    Tackling the Home Office is only effective if we have chips to bargain with.
    I suggest also threatening a revival of the Gypsy catapult. They are quite a weapon in practiced hands, I have seen one in action, also see youtube.
    Thing with those is that anybody can make one from a twig and a piece of rubber, they are virtually free and there is no way that legislation banning them can work. That is what Brits will be reduced to using.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice