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Scope zeroing and grouping

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by Scope.22, Sep 7, 2014.

  1. Scope.22

    Scope.22 Engaging Member

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    So, I zeroed my scope today after getting my new shooting rests.

    Just wondered what effect I should be seeing on other targets other than what I zeroed on. I'm not sure if I'm going to explain myself very well or not.

    [​IMG]

    The top target was the target I zeroed onto, choosing the bulls eye to zero on. The pellet strike in the border by the blue pin was where the scope needed adjusting from. Then in ring 2, 3 and 4 are where I were getting closer. As you might be able to see, aiming for the bulls eye, I was shooting pellet on pellet in the 6 zone with my BSA Lightning GRT.

    Now, on the bottom target, after zeroing on the top, I got reasonable grouping on the 5 and 6, that star shaped strike, again from the shooting rest. I did a few standing up whilst holding the rifle and got close.

    So, how much does aiming the rifle slightly lower or higher affect accuracy/hitting the desired cross hair? Some of it I can put down to recoil.

    This was done at 10 yards because this was in the garden and I read somewhere, can't remember where that 10 yard zero will work out on a 30 yard range. Thanks.
     
  2. yorkshireshoot

    yorkshireshoot Posting Addict

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    I can't help you with aim points and all that but I would suggest for zeroing I would rest the rifle on a bean bag or similar and use a4 paper with a pea sized black dot in the middle just makes it easier I think . Also when your happy with a group try a few different brands and sizes as you may tighten up even further . I'm sure someone else will be along and advise you better than I have but I'm only a novice myself ! Hope this helps a bit anyway Atb
     
  3. Scope.22

    Scope.22 Engaging Member

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    Hi, yes the shooting rests are those Caldwell bean bag ones. I guess I am happy with the grouping, maybe I'm being fussy with thinking I can be bang on target centre on any target? I wasn't that far off centre, with good grouping, maybe some fine adjustment and fiddling with other pellets will make some difference. This was a tin of 5.6 wasps.
     
  4. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

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    You should be able to shoot vertically and horizontally on target at any distance,within reason.

    Although the groupings you've shown above lead me to think that the gun isn't performing as well as it should.
     
  5. TORNADOS7

    TORNADOS7 Top Poster

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    Ah and there in lays the problem buddy, I would suggest you go get yourself some good ole "Superdomes" to start with mate as I tried some wasps in one of my rifles and you'd have thought I'd shot the target with a 12 gauge !.:down:
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
  6. mattgriff88

    mattgriff88 Busy Member

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    Try a variety of pellets, I would definitely start with my favourite falcon accuracy plus or superdomes
     
  7. timmytree

    timmytree Top Poster

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    Make sure you have your forehand between the rifle and the beanbag, google "artillery hold" and get some pointers from that.
    The Lightning is a very lively springer and can be difficult to shoot accurately, most rifles with the right pellets will make neat single hole groups at that range.
    I may be wrong here but your target board seems to be rather high, if you miss the board where does the pellet end up? If it goes over your boundary you could get some aggro.
     
  8. TORNADOS7

    TORNADOS7 Top Poster

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    Superdomes are the first pellet I reach for with any new rifle cos chances are if it don't shoot straight with domes it ain't gonna shoot straight at all !!!;)
     
  9. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    I had similar groups with my Hatsan 60s when I started shooting again about a month ago after 30 years away. I was pretty hopeless and surprised at how much I had forgotten over those years :rolleyes:. I then finally realised that it was down to three things. One, my scope was not quite mounted correctly to suit me, (RFD put it on at shop to suit HIM!!), two, it had loosened slightly with the recoil and the RFD being a little too cautious about accidentaly overtightening the allen bolts and three, choice of pellet to suit your rifle barrel is VERY important

    I then set the scope up to suit myself, tightened everything up a lot more (Caution!! DO NOT overtighten!!), then proceeded down the long road of finding the best pellet for my Rifle/Barrel. This took some time for sure :rolleyes:, but I got there in the end :).

    H&N FTT not too bad and great quality pellet, but too many flyers. Crosman Ultra Magnums, again not bad, but still the odd flyer. RWS Superdomes Superb all round, hardly a flyer and great quality pellet. These are by far my favourites so far.

    I have bought a tin of JSB Exacts recently and intended zeroing in with them on paper targets but went hunting with the superdomes instead lol :D. Loads of people rate their accuracy very highly, so will be interesting to see how they do in my Hatsan 60s. I did pop the lid and pick up a handful and looked at them carefully and it's not a good start :mad:. Loads of damaged or buckled skirts as a few have said here recently! Where's the quality control?

    Anyway, when I saw the pics showing the groups and then you wrote at 10 yards, I thought straight away, "something very wrong here!". With Superdomes I can group at 25 - 35 yards (rifle supported on an old camcorder tripod) on a breezy day and most times they will almost all be under a 5p piece and trust me, I am a long, long way from being any kind of marksman.

    It can be frustrating at first I know, but maybe try a few things suggested by everyone here and I'll bet you'll be getting nice tight groups in no time at all ;). (May not be too wise to go out hunting for live stuff til you get it all sorted? Just saying :)).

    Andy :)
     
  10. david3392

    david3392 Engaging Member

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    Hi, the key to all this is achieving a consistent group size using basic marksmanship principles:

    the point of aim must be correct.
    The rifle to be held in a natural comfortable position
    The shot must be followed through

    Try putting down a series of 5-round group sizes at different aiming points on the target - lots of them. Only when the group size is consistently tight (10p piece size or less at 30m) should you start adjusting the sights. Adjusting them too soon purely to hit the bull leads to something called 'chasing the error' and ends up with frustration all round. Look at the various group sizes and you will see the position of the round that is consistentlly in or near the centre of the group. This is the Mean Point of Impact (MPI) and is the point where the sights are adjusted from.

    By all means experiment with various pellets but not during a grouping session. Stick to one type only until you have got those nice tight groups sorted. Expect to fire up to 50 pellets during grouping before adjusting the sights/scope.

    Hope this helps a little. Cheers, David
     
  11. Stevie Darling

    Stevie Darling Sexual tyrannosaurus

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    As above!

    Get those tight groups first, then zero the scope:)
     
  12. Scope.22

    Scope.22 Engaging Member

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    Which strike holes are you looking at? The strike holes which are around everywhere else are ones made during adjustment. I thought the groupings were otherwise ok? On the top target I was shooting pellet on pellet and almost the same on the bottom target.
     
  13. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

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    Can you produce some groups with no adjustments,just a 5 or 10 shot group?
     
  14. Scope.22

    Scope.22 Engaging Member

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    Just to make sure (in the nicest possible way, I'm not sure I made myself clear), the target board includes stray pellets from when needig to zero. The centre target are my groups and on the bottom target, the star shape is my group. Is it that star shape that people think isn't very good? I thought the top one was cracking, but I'll defo try some other pellets. I have some different tins of Bisely pellets at home, pest control, super fields and magnums.
     
  15. Scope.22

    Scope.22 Engaging Member

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    Before adjustment, if I picked a point, where the pellet ended up, the grouping was reasonable, reasonable to me anyway. But it was hard to make sure I was aiming at the same place every time, because my scope cross hairs were not pointing where the pellet went, which is why I zeroed, and on the rests, the top target got pellet on pellet tight groups, just the bottom target it was different, still close (to me) but not direct on the bulls where I was aiming.
     
  16. Scope.22

    Scope.22 Engaging Member

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    What, I ought to to, is change the tagets, shoot again and post up the results, so that you can all see just my groupings and not where I've been adjusting. And I should do this with the different pellets I have and when I next go shopping, buy some of the pellets you guys have suggested.
     
  17. Scope.22

    Scope.22 Engaging Member

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    Another thing for me to take into account, is that being a break barrel, after reloading and cocking, the rifle may not be in exaclty the same position when I come to fire again, that with recoil when I do fire. I guess that will make some difference? I'm probably asking quite amaturish questions :) It's probably best to see my grouping with a new clean target if I pick a few locations on the target and set different groups.
     
  18. Trampilot

    Trampilot Big Poster

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    For me I zero at 15m or thereabouts to achieve the first point of aim. I then try different pellets at that distance. Any which don't group at that range don't get tried out at 25/30m. I don't re-zero for every pellet but eventually set a zero for the current favourite pellet and use a black dot aimpoint to group the shots.
     
  19. terry1001

    terry1001 Major Poster

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    Others have already said this but the first thing to do (once you've got the scope set so that you can hit the paper) is to practice your shooting until you can get decent groups. All the reports on Wasps indicate that they are NOT normally a good pellet so it would be better to start witha known good quality pellet, several have been suggested and I normally shoot either AA Field or JSB Exact (in pcp rifles).
    When you are just practicing shooting groups it is better if your point of impact is a little way from your point of aim, this ensures that your aim point doesn't get damaged by pellet strikes and you can always aim at exactly the same point every time. When you've got groups that are consistent in size and impact relative to the point of aim you can adjust the scope so that the two coincide at your chosen range - this is zeroing.
    If you're trying different pellets I would suggest cleaning the barrel between different types and firing 25/30 before actaully checking in order to lead the barrel, it's tedious and wasteful but is the best way to do it.
    If you go about it in a logical manner and don't try to do everything at once you will get better results.
    So get used to shooting this particular rifle, the artillery hold is strongly reccommended (look on Youtube for details and a demo), find a decent pellet, practice shooting until you get good, consistent groups and then zero it.
     
  20. Scope.22

    Scope.22 Engaging Member

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    I had a chance to have another go today, things are looking ok I think. Grouping is consistant.

    I started again with the wasps, where I could get a tighter group with them before, today I were getting flyers, making the targets look peppered. So I switched to a tin of Bisely Super Fields and things really improved, only with the odd flyer - maybe I ought to clean my barrel since using a few different pellets.

    All are 5 group shots.

    On this one, aimed for the 6 and all within 10 pence piece

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    On this one, aimed for the 2, all within 10 pence piece, some pellet on pellet

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Another one aiming for the 2, on a taget mounted a little lower, pellet on pellet mostly and within 10 pence piece

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Still seems to make a little difference where the pellet lands if I'm aiming on a lower or higher target, though grouping is consistant, it appears. The odd flyer here and there, which could be recoil and the barrel needing a clean from a change of pellet. I'm shooting with bean bag type rests on a table.

    What do you think guys? Cheers.
     

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