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Scope Mounts Advice Please

Discussion in 'Technical' started by Phil S410F, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. Phil S410F

    Phil S410F Engaging Member

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    At the moment my S4x0 rifles are sporting scopes mounted on Hawke mounts.

    Having read various threads regarding mounts and alignment on here I tried to mount them on the same rail with the clamp screws facing opposite directions and was amazed by how far out they were, this was done purely for interest.

    It has however got me thinking that this may cause inaccuracies when shooting at ranges other than the zeroed one (this is starting to happen more often as I am starting to think about dipping a toe in to HFT).

    I have also seen people recommending the BKL mounts which look to me as if the clamping action is done by springing the two legs of a single piece of metal together and thus should be more centred. Is this the case and are they a lot better than "standard mounts"?

    Also should I be thinking about double straps or single straps?

    If I need two sets the cost starts adding up quickly.
     
  2. The burpster

    The burpster Engaging Member

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    Sadly, you get what you pay for. Not only are the cheap mounts likely to be out of line they will also put strain on the tube of the scope.

    The best ways to mount a scope stress free are a one piece pre lapped mount (like the Nightforce ultralight or Tier One), or using Burris rings with pos align inserts. These are not easy to get hold of but will do the job with no compromise.

    Would you buy a Ferrari track car and use remould tyres? It amazes me that so many people will spend hundreds on a rifle and scope and then scoff at spending more than £20 on mounts. A chain is as good as its weakest link....
     
  3. Phil S410F

    Phil S410F Engaging Member

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    Thanks @The burpster I have had a quick google of Burris rings and suddenly BKL don't seem so expensive after all.
    The Burris rings seem to come in two different rail fitting styles a self centering one and what looks like the normal clamp on one side so I guess it would be the self centering one to get the real benefit.
    One piece mounts would I think give me problems with the Magazine on the S410 and impinge on the loading of the S400.
    I'm not scoffing at spending more than £20 on mounts as such but potentially if I do both rifles with double band BKL mounts I am getting close to £80 if not slightly more and wondered how much difference it makes in real life to decide on whether it is worth doing in one hit.
     
  4. John Entwistle

    John Entwistle Engaging Member

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    I’ve got BKL on my hw100 and tx200 never an issue, apart from a daft imperial sized Allen key
    I’d have them on my Impact if they did picatinny mounts :(
     
  5. Roger Archbold

    Roger Archbold Engaging Member

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    BKL are the ones for me, and you don't need double screws on a PCP as you say BKLs ain't cheap, but they are good
     
  6. John Entwistle

    John Entwistle Engaging Member

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    Tactical scopes (Nick Wake) is showing stocks in 30mm and dovetail
     
    PBaz Barrett likes this.
  7. hamza

    hamza Posting Addict

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    Definitely BKLs, single straps will be fine for a PCP.

    I have some Burris, Tier One and some Spuhr ones on the way but they’re all for Picatinny rails so no good for your 400. They are however very very good. The Burris ones will even let you adjust up to 40MOA with the shims they come with.

    I highly recommend buying one of these too if you get the BKLs

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wera-05344...rds=WEra+9/64&qid=1569402255&s=gateway&sr=8-1

    Having said all that... it’s easy enough to see how far off centre your current mounts are putting you, just zero in at say 25yda d then check windage at 8 and 50yds. If it’s enough to miss a kill throw them away. If it’s less than the error you introduce just shooting the gun maybe spend the mo eye on more pellets and time at the range instead.
     
    PBaz Barrett likes this.
  8. Phil S410F

    Phil S410F Engaging Member

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    Pellets and time at the range are a given regardless.

    Just looking for tiny increments of accuracy.
     
  9. hamza

    hamza Posting Addict

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    I guess I was just trying to say, check how far they actually put you off the mark before spending money on new mounts. Easy to do. If it’s not much then spend the money on a different change to improve accuracy.

    Or just do it anyway if you’re more time than money limited.
     
  10. Patrick

    Patrick Donator

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    Well if you attach the mounts so that the clamps and screws are on opposite sides of the rail to each other of course they'll be out of line to certain degree depending on what make they are as they were never intended to be mounted that way. Assuming they not defective/faulty there's nothing wrong with the Hawke Mounts you've got providing you do the obvious i.e put the clamps of each mount on the same side of the rail and make sure you use the clamps the correct way round to suit the width of the scope rail on your gun. I've used Hawke mounts before and have got a pair on one of my guns and they work fine, they not canted over at all and are central.
     
    32:1 likes this.
  11. Phil S410F

    Phil S410F Engaging Member

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    I will get the measuring devices out later and see how central they are.

    I obviously do have them mounted with the fixings on the same side as otherwise it would be skewed. I just wondered how far off the Centreline of the barrel it might be.
     
  12. The burpster

    The burpster Engaging Member

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    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  13. Coggie

    Coggie Well-Known Member

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    What about sports match mounts. I thought they were the dogs bananas n all that.
     
    Brock1Rgj and Lev Levvin like this.
  14. Phil S410F

    Phil S410F Engaging Member

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    Thanks for the heads up burpster, unfortunately too tall for me.
     
  15. robs5230

    robs5230 леший

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    At an educated guess, one sided mounts could be almost up to 1.5mm off centre.
    If used with clamps on opposite sides this could be almost 3mm askew
     
  16. John Harrigan

    John Harrigan Verified Dinosaur

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    When I had my .308 made a Nightforce NSX 56mm was fitted the gunsmith Dave Wylde lapped the NF mounts, this may be of use to Target shooters probably not so much hunters. It might help with less expensive mounts.

     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  17. hamza

    hamza Posting Addict

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    So let’s say it’s 1.5mm, if you’re zeroed at say 25yds, taking a shot at 50yds you’d be out by 1.5mm on windage. I reckon my margin of error as a shooter is probably more than that.
     
  18. robs5230

    robs5230 леший

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    But knowing its out at all, why would anyone even accept that.
    As shooters we strive for the best rifle, scope, pellet, god knows what accessories in the search for "perfection" then bolt the rifle and scope together with cheap mounts that have have an inbuilt error (let alone cheaper ones possibly being a mis matched pair).

    Why would you ?
    For the sake of £20 or so :facepalm:
     
    2506sendero likes this.
  19. jesim1

    jesim1 Big Poster

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    Not so - if your out by 1.5mm at the scope in alignment then you could be out by over an inch as the range increases the further you go between the gun and target unless both rings are out exactly the same. This is because the scope is potentially pointing slightly off centre and not aligned with the barrel, so it’s basically not pointing straight and you aim will be off.
     
    FPoole and robs5230 like this.
  20. hamza

    hamza Posting Addict

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    Personally I don’t, but if i can imagine there might be cases where there are bigger sources of error to resolve first
     

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