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Schofield

Discussion in 'Air Pistols' started by Dennyboy, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. oedbachgen

    oedbachgen Top Poster

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  2. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Wild West is my thing. (co2 enthusiast)

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    That's your mature answer is it? Unbelievable. Seriously unbelievable. :rolleyes::facepalm:
     
  3. oedbachgen

    oedbachgen Top Poster

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    Like I said before, you want to get a life Wild Bill, there's a world out there, and its not a dream one;):up:
     
  4. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Wild West is my thing. (co2 enthusiast)

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    There is no need to be insulting man. I was trying to be reasonable with you. Why couldn't you be reasonable?
     
  5. oedbachgen

    oedbachgen Top Poster

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    I'l ask you a question, why do you keep on, as you once said, leave it drop:up:
     
  6. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Wild West is my thing. (co2 enthusiast)

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    OK I'll answer you because I am a good man. I keep on because I wanted you to give us the real facts, the real law. But not once have you had the decency to answer our questions on where you get your info from. You can't go and give advice on a shooting forum unless you know the facts. So now I have had the courtesy of answering your question, you do the same. Tell me where you get your facts from regarding altering the markings, colour or anything else on an air pistol and thus breaking the law. Can you do that? I don't want an argument with you, just a mature discussion? Is it possible?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
    Rob-ontarget likes this.
  7. oedbachgen

    oedbachgen Top Poster

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    Couldn't be bothered to read it :coffee:
     
  8. nevadacowboy

    nevadacowboy Busy Member

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    I believe this thread has run its course and should be closed by the mods as it is achieving the grand sum of zero.
     
    Dennyboy likes this.
  9. Douglas Soal

    Douglas Soal Donator

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    Think he’s just winding you up now, don’t give him the satisfaction.
     
    Wild Bill likes this.
  10. Rob-ontarget

    Rob-ontarget Donator

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    So is it the feo or me lying??:rolleyes:
    Dont you find it weird that not one single person has posted backing up your ridiculous claims.. or even liked your posts?
    I feel embarrased for you..
    :troll:
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
    Wild Bill likes this.
  11. oedbachgen

    oedbachgen Top Poster

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    Copy and paste: Couldn't be bothered to read it :coffee:
     
  12. Rob-ontarget

    Rob-ontarget Donator

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    Hahaha..
    Of course you couldnt..:facepalm:
     
    Wild Bill likes this.
  13. oedbachgen

    oedbachgen Top Poster

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  14. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Wild West is my thing. (co2 enthusiast)

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    I don't honestly understand how a grown man (which I presume you are) can act in such a childish manner on a shooting forum. :down::(
     
  15. oedbachgen

    oedbachgen Top Poster

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    Copy and paste: Couldn't be bothered to read it :coffee:
     
  16. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Wild West is my thing. (co2 enthusiast)

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    I think you are right Douglas. He is one of the most childish men I have ever encountered on a shooting forum. He has shown himself up and he's probably very, very embarrassed about the whole thing.
    oedbachgen we are now mates. Sorry. ;):up:
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
    DRAGONBAIT666 and Rob-ontarget like this.
  17. Steve170

    Steve170 Well-Known Member

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    ... Well I clicked this thread to hope to see some photos or opinions on this firearm. Saw the debate opening up on page 1 and so skipped to page 5 and saw it still going on haha! I shall look elsewhere!
     
  18. Victor Robert Allaway

    Victor Robert Allaway Engaging Member

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    Unfortunately it has been my experience that Police officers often do not know the law pertaining to their activities or ours. This has often been demonstrated when a case comes to court and demonstrated that there is no case to answer. As an example I had a pair of policemen come to my house when I was assaulted by my lodger. They told me that I could not evict the lodger without notice. This was later shown to be untrue - a lodger can be summarily evicted with due cause.

    Likewise I have had an officer threaten to arrest me (threaten? - either I should be arrested or not) to hide their guilt in a traffic situation - luckily the police car just missed me! So in my opinion through ignorance or misrepresentation, advice from the Police should include traceable reference to the legislation before it is relied upon.

    Rob.
     
  19. BigLes

    BigLes Member

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    This thread should have been put to bed long ago, but my inner-pedant feels the need to point out the specific UK laws to clear the confusion so I can sleep well tonight (and not intentionally re-kindle the flame):

    UK firearms law is confusing, and I can see where the confusion comes from, the wording of the 2006 Violent Crime Reduction Act found here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/part/2/crossheading/imitation-firearms says:

    “(1)A person is guilty of an offence if—

    (a)he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm;

    (b)he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;”.


    Hence the source for comments about rubbing off white lettering as to change its appearance. However, that reasoning is flawed because white lettering is not by definition under the 2006 VCRA one of the methods to distinguish an Imitation Firearm from a Realistic Imitation Firearm. The VCRA states:

    “(1)In sections 36 and 37 “realistic imitation firearm” means an imitation firearm which—

    (a)has an appearance that is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable, for all practical purposes, from a real firearm; and

    (b)is neither a de-activated firearm nor itself an antique.

    (2)For the purposes of this section, an imitation firearm is not (except by virtue of subsection (3)(b)) to be regarded as distinguishable from a real firearm for any practical purpose if it could be so distinguished only—

    (a)by an expert;

    (b)on a close examination; or

    (c)as a result of an attempt to load or to fire it.

    (3)In determining for the purposes of this section whether an imitation firearm is distinguishable from a real firearm—

    (a)the matters that must be taken into account include any differences between the size, shape and principal colour of the imitation firearm and the size, shape and colour in which the real firearm is manufactured; and

    (b)the imitation is to be regarded as distinguishable if its size, shape or principal colour is unrealistic for a real firearm.”


    Now, you might be scratching your head thinking that your CO2 CP88 is very realistic looking and would fall foul of that lot. So, we need to look at the Firearms Act 1968 (and subsequent amendments https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/contents ) which make it clear that:

    "(1) The expression “firearm” means—

    (a)a lethal barrelled weapon (see subsection (1B));

    (b)a prohibited weapon;

    (c)a relevant component part in relation to a lethal barrelled weapon or a prohibited weapon (see subsection (1D));

    (d)an accessory to a lethal barrelled weapon or a prohibited weapon where the accessory is designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon;".

    "In subsection (1)(a), “lethal barrelled weapon” means a barrelled weapon of any description from which a shot, bullet or other missile, with kinetic energy of more than one joule at the muzzle of the weapon, can be discharged."


    And, we can see that anything with more power than 1 joule is potentially a ‘lethal barrelled weapon”.

    That seems a bit tight on Air-softers who love to shoot each other - so crucially an amendment under the Policing and Crime Act 2017 to the 1968 Firearms Act states that they are in the clear if:

    "(1C)Subsection (1) is subject to section 57A (exception for airsoft guns)."

    (1)An “airsoft gun” is not to be regarded as a firearm for the purposes of this Act.

    (2)An “airsoft gun” is a barrelled weapon of any description which—

    (a)is designed to discharge only a small plastic missile (whether or not it is also capable of discharging any other kind of missile), and

    (b)is not capable of discharging a missile (of any kind) with kinetic energy at the muzzle of the weapon that exceeds the permitted level.

    (3)“Small plastic missile” means a missile that—

    (a)is made wholly or partly from plastics,

    (b)is spherical, and

    (c)does not exceed 8 millimetres in diameter.

    (4)The permitted kinetic energy level is—

    (a)in the case of a weapon which is capable of discharging two or more missiles successively without repeated pressure on the trigger, 1.3 joules;

    (b)in any other case, 2.5 joules."


    So, there you have it, your CO2 CP88’s, Schofield’s and Colts firing metal projectiles are not imitation firearms or realistic imitation firearms or even airsoft weapons – they are lethal barrelled weapons and therefore firearms.

    Hopefully that clears things up, which is to say the law is an ass. If you are not a member of a re-enactment society or skirmish club, you would still need to buy your < 2.5 joule non-lethal plastic BB firing airsoft CP88 in a garish two-tone colour and face jail if you repaint it. On the bright side you could buy one classed as a ‘lethal barrelled weapon’, or firearm, that is indistinguishable from the very much more lethal 9mm variant!
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
    Frog and Steve170 like this.
  20. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Wild West is my thing. (co2 enthusiast)

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    Yes we know. I and others stated it much earlier in the thread. So it was cleared up and put to bed until someone woke it up again.:D

    But of course you do know that you don't need to be a member of any skirmish club or a re-enactment society to use purchase pre 1870 style weapons and that includes air pistols, blank firers and imitation firearms. ;):thumb: And yes we know all air pistols (those that are designed to fire lead or steel BB's are real firearms in the eyes of the law hence any regulations pertaining to RIF's does not matter nor apply. Old news Big Les.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
    Paul55 likes this.

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