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Reloading, Rollover Query?

Discussion in 'Shotguns (SGC)' started by JoeHeugh, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. JoeHeugh

    JoeHeugh Beware the Springer

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    After much testing I'm now quite happy with my "handload blue" 410 cartridges which are throwing 20g of No 5 in a nice tight pattern out to 30 yards. They seem quite consistent so in a way this is about cosmetics as much as anything else but I would like to find a way of tidying up the rollover top.

    reload-410.jpg

    I'm using double overshot card to provide a bit of padding to the top of the shot column and a GCR rollover tool in variable speed hand held drill to close the case but the results look a bit tatty. Screenshot from 2020-11-21 09-11-12.png

    I suspect I would get better results using a pillar drill but don't really have anywhere to put one at the moment. There are also finishing tools such as the GAEP which might help but £45 is not a cheap throw if they dont. Unfortunately a star crip, which would probably be the best option does not seem feasible in 410, well I can't find any tools anyway.
    Screenshot from 2020-11-21 09-16-20.png

    So if anyone is doing their own rollovers, in any gauge, do you have any hints or tips on how to get a nice finish?
     
  2. DUNKS

    DUNKS Big Poster

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    They do look a bit untidy. Cant help with the tool I only do 12g but I always put a touch of Vaseline on the edge to be turned over. just the merest smidgen. Worth a try. I do use a pillar drill.
     
    JoeHeugh likes this.
  3. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    WR14210 and JoeHeugh like this.
  4. JoeHeugh

    JoeHeugh Beware the Springer

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    Thanks lads, that looks like a good place to start, a smidge of vaseline and a drill stand that can be packed away. I don't know why I didn't think of the stand before but I'll get one ordered. I intend rolling all my own 410 from now on, mainly because I prefer their performance to most of the commercial offerings but also it's just nice to have that personal input. Not to mention the upcoming move away from lead.

    Cheers.
     
    r10hunter likes this.
  5. DUNKS

    DUNKS Big Poster

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    Now fill em with black powder and have some real fun!
     
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  6. JoeHeugh

    JoeHeugh Beware the Springer

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    Blackpowder? I'd love to roll some brass ones, even try reforming 303 brass but I can't legally buy the primers (and I guess it would have to be Pyrodex too).

    Which reminds me I have an obsolete Enfield Rifle (smoothbore).... I really must get my act together!
     
  7. johnnyv

    johnnyv Posting Addict

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    Been there looks as though you have not left enough material to roll which used to happen with mine, yours are just making the turn by looks of things, it really does need to turn down by a good 2 mm for a tidy and secure roll

    If those cases are second hand or trimmed too much you'll need to adjust shot column/ wad length for a good 5mm proud with top card on top to open case mouth

    Lube tool and fairly fast spin with good downward pressure will give a good roll, the top of the case really needs to turn back on itself and bury itself into the card if that makes sense:up:
     
    Figgy, JoeHeugh and DUNKS like this.
  8. sidelocker

    sidelocker Well-Known Member

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    as above i rto on 12 bore .always leave about about 5 mm above overshot card and I use one of the old hand cranked antique? machines ,gives a pretty neat rto DSC_0075.JPG
     
    JoeHeugh likes this.
  9. JoeHeugh

    JoeHeugh Beware the Springer

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    Thanks, this is all very helpful and will save me buying new tools before I've got the basics right, although I will get the drill stand. I've found this the hardest part of making the cartridges, everything else is fairly straightforward but getting the crimp obviously has a knack and there's not a lot of info out there. I'll be practising on a few cases then I'll see how I go with another batch.
     
  10. HW95J

    HW95J Donator

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    Leave a bit more space (remove one of the overshot cards or reduce load), make sure overshot cards have good rigidity, put a small amount of oil on the rim of the case before crimping and apply even pressure. I use a manual RTO so a little different but a bit of ballistol on end of case really helps. Also after the first couple the heat generated seems to make it smoother for the rest. I load 3" 18.5gram #6 fibre
     

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  11. Figgy

    Figgy Big Poster

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    Looking at your carts you've not fully formed the roll, the roll should turn the case 180 degrees with the edge of the cart holding down the overshot card.
    You can get .410 spinners online for rolling or tidying up your carts.
    FES Kent, Folkstone engineering, click on shotgun reloading then on tools crimpers cutters and you'll see in red writing that .410 are available in brass or steel supplied with arbour to fit in a drill.
    I haven't put a link in case its against forum rules.

    For lube I use light oil, silicon or sewing machine type oil, on a sponge is good or a cloth dampened with oil, touch the roll to the sponge, as used in cartridge factories, to get a light coat of oil then use the spinner in a drill hand or drill press to make the roll from scratch or tidy up crimps and rolls.
    If you have a drill press it's worth buying the brass tapered cart holder base, it grips the head of the case so it don't spin in your hands.
    The OMV stuff is what lots of cart manufacturers use in their factories.
    Here's a couple of pictures taken from online to show the correct rollover. One on card other on frangible disc contains solid slug. The correct depth of the roll is what gives you the resistance to create pressure for clean burning of the powder. 12g-blanks.jpg maxresdefault (1).jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
  12. Snarepeg

    Snarepeg Active Member

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    I reload about 50 a time, stand up in tray and spray its presserized grease, cuts out tool grabbing.
     

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