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quick legal question

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by abbas224, Mar 12, 2009.

  1. abbas224

    abbas224 Active Member

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    hi, need some advice here please.

    the other week, i bought a crossbow and a target boss (made of high density foam, designed to stop the bolts).
    my garden is too small to shoot in, so i have to go outside to shoot. we don't have a garage, so the next-door neighbour lets us use hers. the entrance to the garage is directly opposite my garden fence (they are about 5m apart, separated by a private driveway leading to 4 houses behind mine). when i'm shooting, i place my target in front of the garden fence and shoot at it from inside the garage (usually lying down in the prone position on a camp bed). now this obviously means that the bolts have to travel out of the garage and across this driveway to hit the target.

    so here's the situation:

    - both our houses are situated on this private driveway, so there's no problem with me being there.
    - i have legitimate access to the neighbour's garage, so there's no problem with me being there either.
    - it is considered a private driveway and not a public highway.
    - our houses are well over 50ft away from the road.
    - the area is very quiet. there are only 6 houses on this driveway (mine, the neighbour's and the 4 behind us), and they're all spaced out pretty well. they're all elderly couples; no children. maybe once every half an hour someone will walk or drive in or out.
    - since the target is placed in front of my garden fence (which acts as a backstop), there is no chance of a bolt missing the target and causing damage (except to the fence of course, but this is our property).

    only 2 or 3 times while i've been shooting have i seen someone walking/driving by. obviously as soon as i saw them approaching, i held my fire and put the safety on until they'd gone away. i'm responsible and people don't seem to mind. but earlier on today, the little old italian bloke who lives in the house behind me (who complains about everything and nobody likes) came out of his house and started complaining. despite the fact that i'd just stuck 3 bolts in the bullseye, the little p***k insisted that i was unsafe. his defense was simply that "the arrows are sharp and could hurt someone". in the end, he walked away saying "i'm not happy, i'm not happy about this" and i resumed shooting.

    my concern is that he rings the police. i don't think what i'm doing is illegal (can't see why it would be), but i just wanted to check with you guys. i know this isn't a crossbow forum, but i'm pretty sure the laws would be the same.
     
  2. andyhawkx3

    andyhawkx3 Major Poster

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    My opinion, an I dare say the opinion of the Police if called, you are shooting in a public place, ....this place has access for, postmen, newspaper kids, parcel delivery's. ..sorry buddy but your going to have to stop, doing this, before you get nicked/or seriously injure someone, or even worse kill someone.
     
  3. Andy

    Andy Administrative Staff Member Founder

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    Andy that's saying no one can shoot on their own land, as long as the arrows stay within the land he is shooting on, then the police can do nothing about it, unless there was a noise issue.
    I shoot in my garden but anyone could walk round in to it,:confused: i pass an archery shooting club every day that is located in a field, but they stand less than 20 feet from the main road when shooting. Anyone who drives past (including the police) can see them, and if one of them shooters were to be facing the wrong way with a loaded bow and accidently let it go, then it would kill anyone driving past should it hit them. There is nothing but a 3 foot dry stone wall between them and the motorists, walkers, horse riders. :eek:

    ---------- Post added at 00:16 ---------- Previous post was at 00:06 ----------

    Not sure if it's the same law for bows but i would think it is.

     
  4. andyhawkx3

    andyhawkx3 Major Poster

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    Andy your a delivery driver, you tell me (you could be delivering to this address) ... The thread starter says, ....if he See's someone one the driveway/walkway he applies his safety catch, so his crossbow is still aimed at the person crossing the walkway,... safety catches are not, seen tobe safe, in my my mind ...i.e. mechanics can break down. ...So .I believe my advice is good/sound advice, for the person using the crossbow, and the public, whom ever they maybe ...Sorry to all that disagree, but that is my point of view ....this is not a point of law, but common sense.
     
  5. Andy

    Andy Administrative Staff Member Founder

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    He could rope off the driveway and put a sign up. (shooting in progress) i have been bitten by three dogs to date but never been shot yet. :D

    Another option for the shooter, is to tell the Italian man to **** off back to Italy, i just cant be doing with these type of nosey gits, i have one who lives behind me, thinks he owns the village. i had a problem with him about 4 years ago, i had words with him and the police were called by his wife. :D He's never bothered me since. :p
     
  6. abbas224

    abbas224 Active Member

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    when did i say it was still aimed? i said "as soon as i saw them approaching, i held my fire and put the safety on until they'd gone away". sorry, i should have worded it better - by "holding fire" i meant i point it down and away from the person or vehicle moving by. i would never point a weapon at anyone walking past - i know how intimidating it is.

    good idea, i think i'll make a sign.

    lol sounds just like him. nobody likes this guy - he loves complaining and sticking his nose into other people's business. even if i were doing it in my back garden he'd still have something to say.
    i can't stand the man, but i spoke courteously to him and tried assuring him that everything was fine and that nothing bad was going to happen. but if he complains again i'll just tell him to p**s off.

    it amazes me how ignorant people are when it comes to weapons. his defense was simply that the bolts could hurt someone - never mind that i was using it responsibly and no-one was around. a weapon is only as dangerous as the person using it - some people just don't understand this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2009
  7. andyhawkx3

    andyhawkx3 Major Poster

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    You asked, for advice ...you made the statment ...
     
  8. sumo

    sumo Posting Addict

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    Im wth Andy on this one:up::).
    If the feckin italian wants to sound off then let him do so in his own country.
    If he wants to stay in our country and sponge of our welfare system then the least he could to is shut his trap!.
    AW,bloody immigrints!:mad::mad:,kick them all out I say!.
     
  9. Guvnor RBM

    Guvnor RBM Keyboard Hero

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    I would word the sign "Private - Keep out" or some thing along thouse lines,

    "Shooting in progressW could bring more attention...
     
  10. redial

    redial Active Member

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    Archery

    I belive an archery club lost their feild.So as the Statute law states Englishmen practice archery two hours sunday morning,This Club set up their targets on a main road ,it appears the police could do nothing about it ,,,The old law states they had to have a place to practise on,lo and behold The Council soon found them a new field,
     
  11. Burntout

    Burntout Engaging Member

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    you could word it "pirates - Keep Out" - folk tend not to mess with pirates!
     
  12. Guvnor RBM

    Guvnor RBM Keyboard Hero

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    Or Ninja's

    or Pirate Ninja's

    :D
     
  13. simply james

    simply james Banned

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    i always use a sign saying ,shooting in this area ,people usually shout anyway when they call and see the sign
     
  14. 8-ball

    8-ball Engaging Member

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    Having read this Thread, and the replies I feel I need to add my bit, so here goes:

    The pathway, whether for access to privately owned properties or not, is technically classed as a public place.
    As such, you should NOT be firing the crossbow, or anyhting come to that, across it.
    If the local Bobbies are called they WILL seize the weapon, and you WILL be reported for having a weapon in a public place. You may even be arrested.
    I'm sorry to say that, even though I go shooting with 12g, rimfire and air-rifle, I would have no hesitation in arresting someone for doing what you are doing.
    If charged with the offence and subsequently convicted in court you will face a HUGE fine, and possible prison sentence. You will also have your weapons confiscated FOREVER, and if you have a shotgun or firearms certificate you will lose that too
    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but whatever you do...
    .....STOP THIS NOW.....
     
  15. baldytommo

    baldytommo Busy Member

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    I totaly agree with 8 ball. He should be made forum law enforcer!!! :D
    No seriously, there is a time and a place to use a weapon. An area used by people on a regular basis is not a good place to shoot.
     
  16. Andy

    Andy Administrative Staff Member Founder

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    I have some questions for you, the police seem to think everywhere is a public place these days (when it suits them).

    How do airgun clubs or any gun club take place, as they are used by the public to shoot so (is technically classed as a public place). ?

    How do people shoot in Scotland when the public have the right to roam. ?
    so is technically classed as a public place.

    Can i park my car on someone else's drive if it's technically a public place. :D

    What is a public place and what is not,? are you saying that the current laws in place are wrong. :confused: Or are you saying that the police can make up their own laws when it suits. ;)
     
  17. redial

    redial Active Member

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    Location:
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    Public places

    My local clay shoot has a Public Footpath running through it.People can if they wish stand and watch ,The path is within 10 feet of the first trap.even though private there is a public right of way,SO what laws are being broken here ,would our learn`d friend go and arrest all of them,they have a licence to shoot ,have been passed by the Police..Council,etc ,a garden/motor car/ are all classed as a public place,where will it all end,
     
  18. andyhawkx3

    andyhawkx3 Major Poster

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    My shoot has public rights of ways across it, I cant shoot ..from the public right of way, towards it, over it, or through it... but I can either side of it, as long as I'm more than 50ft away from the centre of the path (but I always make it 50 yds:up:) ...also there are 7 course fishing pools there, I'm not allowed to shoot around them, till after 5pm (no night fishing allowed) but only when and after I have conducted a risk assessment, making sure all anglers have left the property.
     
  19. noluv6

    noluv6 Engaging Member

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    technicly it is private but if some one is walking down the road and feels threatend by seeing the cross bow you can get arrested.
    only takes some one to lie and say you have threatend them and your looking at prison as a kid local to me got 18 months in prison for shooting a bb gun in the front garden and waving it at a citizen.
    if your in garden and cant be seen ur fine.
    cross bow is tooooo power full for where u are shooting to so be very care full

    ---------- Post added at 02:09 ---------- Previous post was at 02:05 ----------

    me my friend shoot shottys about 10 feet from public foot path and have never had any problems.strange thing is is they will walk straight up to you and call u all sorts for poppin pigeons.ud think they would be wary considering we have a shotty each but they dont care lol.
    we just be extremely patient and polite and try ignore the comments stating we have full permission on the farm and they are pests attacking the crops.
     
  20. 8-ball

    8-ball Engaging Member

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    Sorry if my post has caused offence to people. What I was trying to get across is that by firing a cross-bow, and any weapon, ACROSS a PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY is an offence.
    As someone else said; a crossbow is far too powerful. Firing an air-ifle in your back garden is fine as long as the pellets stay within your boundary.
    The reason I said I would arrest without hesitation is because our member clearly stated that he was firing from the garage ACROSS the path, and into his property. Both the garage and his property are fine, as he has the owners permission to be there, but the path is a different matter
    As for what is public and what isn't; well thats a tricky one. Anywhere that someone has access to whether by right, invitation or payment is classed as public. Although this path qwe're talking about may be privately owned, it leads to houses, also privately owned Iunderstand, but by viture of the fact that they are private dwellings, local delivery people, peperboys, postmen etc etc have access to them by nature of their occupation, thereby technically making the footpath a 'public place'
    I hope this clears up some confusion
    I don't want to come across as a big headed know-all who's out to upset everyone, but I would hate for someone to come into conflict with their local plod if there is something I can say that will prevent it.
    We have enough problems with shooting etc as it is, we all need to help each other to ensure that we can keep up our sport

    ABBAAS224 - I hope you haven't taken my replies as a personal attack. PM me if you'd like to ask anymore questions, or want advice and I can email you some links to the relevant legislation etc

    TO EVERYONE - sorry again if I have annoyed anyone; I'll shut up now

    Ken
     

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