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Pp800

Discussion in 'Air Pistols' started by Nubble, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. Nubble

    Nubble Donator

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    I had a couple of hours free this afternoon so I managed to have a bit more of a play with my new pistol today.

    I have already changed the trigger spring for a lighter one so next job, off came the rear-sight and on went a cheapo reflex red dot as I had one kicking about. Then spent a little while tweaking the sight from standing and then rested to get it nearly there before shooting this target from a rested position.

    [​IMG]


    Following this I filled the gun to around 175/180 bar and shot 85 shots 1 handed from a standing position. The gauge still shows around 110 bar so the claimed 100 shots per fill seems ok so far. I have not chronoed it yet.
    The gun seems solid. By that I mean everything seems like it needs a bit of use to loosen it up a bit. The break on the trigger is firm. I think a little polish of the hammer and hammer sear will smooth this out.
    Pulling the bolt back also needs a very positive tug but it loads pellets nice and positively. The trigger is poorly finished and has lateral [side-side] movement. The casting isn't the best and although 2 stage the 1st stage lacks any feel before meeting firm resistance prior to the break. Some may like this. I'm not keen so am toying with the idea of making a brass replacement trigger.

    Overall it has a good feel. The grip is comfortable and sits nice in the hand even tho I had to adjust my grip slightly to suit the contours of the stock. After 70 or so shots I found my aim was becoming a tad wobbly and it was getting dark so put it away for tomorrow!

    On the whole I am quite pleased with it although like the CP1/CP2 etc they benefit from a little fettling. Straight out of the box they are ok but feel like it could be better. If I can get this one shooting as nice as my CP1 I shall be very happy indeed.

    Being a new [to the market] gun we just need to see how long before something if anything goes wrong with it!!! My CP1 lasted 9 months.

    Nubble
    :thumb:
     
    Gary Jones, Montala, talent and 12 others like this.
  2. Nayan Peshkar

    Nayan Peshkar Member

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    Hi Nubble, Great to read your post on the PP800. I was wanting to buy one myself and had been looking for information from folks who have used this gun - not much on the internet yet. I have only recently entered the sport and have a Hammerli AR20 PRO as i do 10m rifle target shooting at the local club. Please could i ask you - where did you buy your PP800 and for how much. I see that you have a moderator attached to it - did this come with the gun? What rear sights are you using? Thanks for your reply and looking forward to more of your posts! Cheers, Nayan
     
    Nubble likes this.
  3. mikeyhall1

    mikeyhall1 Pepe Le Pew

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    Nice write up Nubs

    Seems to be shooting nicely matey
     
    Nubble likes this.
  4. Nubble

    Nubble Donator

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    Hello Nayan,

    I believe the gun has only just gone on sale (Dec 18th) so that would explain why nobody has one yet. I have been waiting for ages for them to go on sale.......

    https://www.airgunforum.co.uk/community/index.php?threads/seen-one-of-these-yet.256792/

    I then had to try and find one available without having to pay a £35 RFD transfer fee as my local rfd is Dick Turpin. Fortunately I managed to pick this one up at a little less than the rrp although I did have to take in a 100 mile round trip. :D
    I actually collected it coz I wanted to check out the feel of it before buying. (I also got sidetracked by an AA Alpha but was too tatty for the asking price).
    An online search will throw up the dealers who have them for sale. ;)

    I have also been told that only 150 will be available.

    The pistol comes fitted as standard with a moderator and I have a reflex sight fitted (as picture) due to the fact that my eyesight is not really up to using open sights. You also get a nice little thread protector if you want to remove the moderator. The mod is NOT 1/2" unf.

    I have had very little chance to shoot it but So far I have swapped the trigger spring for a much lighter one and likewise with the hammer spring. Although I note that the pistol consumes air much quicker with the lighter spring, probably due to hammer/valve bounce.
    The trigger still needs setting up to my personal preference.

    Air tank/cylinder ain't massive and takes around 25 strokes on the pump to fill from around 100 bar to 180 bar.

    Most probably shot around 200 pellets with it yet so still getting used to it.

    Cheers
    Nubble
    :thumb:
     
    UrbDru06 and Reevo17 like this.
  5. QuoVadis69

    QuoVadis69 Donator

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    Glad to see you're enjoying it bud. I'm sure you'll have her sweet as a nut in no time. :up:
     
    Nubble likes this.
  6. Nubble

    Nubble Donator

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    Very quick 10mins this morning.
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. squib

    squib Busy Member

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    I suspect the moderator thread will be M12 fine ( m12x1.25).
     
    Nubble likes this.
  8. Nubble

    Nubble Donator

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    Excellent. Thank You @squib
    :thumb:
     
  9. Nayan Peshkar

    Nayan Peshkar Member

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    @Nubble, which pellets would you recommend for the PP800? In .177. Thanks, Nayan

    .
     
  10. Nubble

    Nubble Donator

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    @Nayan Peshkar

    I use the RWS Geco as they are clean, accurate, consistent, perform well at pistol sort of ranges and most importantly they are cheap at around £4 a tin.

    You can spend 2 or 3 times this on a tin of pellets but unless you are shooting competitions I think you are just wasting money.

    I have tried some of the more expensive 'match' pellets but for me the only difference was the price. If I was shooting competitively then I would most probably think a little different but I am only shooting for fun.
    :thumb:
     
    Wild Bill likes this.
  11. Nayan Peshkar

    Nayan Peshkar Member

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    @Nubble. Thank you for your response. I think I am getting my PP800 tomorrow, bought it from Solware in the end, with a friend coming to see me carting it down. Looking forward to a session this weekend. Cheers. Nayan

    .
     
    Nubble likes this.
  12. Nubble

    Nubble Donator

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    @Nayan Peshkar
    Wise choice mate. I know Solware are the cheapest at the moment and a good bunch of guys. I hope you are happy with it. Let me know how you get on, I would be interested to know what you think. ;) Out of the box I thought the trigger was far too heavy (for me) so will need a little fettling and a polish and it took me a little while to get it set up. It's somewhere close now but still not as light as I would like. They say it is adjustable from 0.5-4.5lbs pull but couldn't get mine quite as light as 0.5 in stock form.
    I also put the stock (standard) hammer spring back in and ran it thru the chrono and will try to post up the info here later. :cool: I'm getting around 65+ shots from a 170 bar fill (down to 110 bar), and around 85 shots from 170-90 bar (stock hammer spring fitted).

    Good luck with it.
    :thumb:
     
    protheroe likes this.
  13. Nayan Peshkar

    Nayan Peshkar Member

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    So.... Got the package this afternoon and had a quick look. I am posting some of the photos here. A couple of quick observations: The machining isn't the most refined (see trigger), the magazine plastic cover plate looks already shattered (no QC?), the pistol itself was dusty in places and the plastic bits looks very plasticky, the wood no where close to the photos on the artemis website. For a couple of tenners over £200, I wasn't expecting anything outstanding, but thought I would share a few photos and first thoughts. The shattered looking magazine was a let down though.

    Will setup the pistol tomorrow and do what it was built for. Will report back on progress.

    It was a tad bit heavier than I expected it to be, by the way. Happy weekend all![​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    .
     
    UrbDru06 likes this.
  14. Johnny$

    Johnny$ Member

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    Niiiiice :nana:
     
  15. Nubble

    Nubble Donator

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    Looking good @Nayan Peshkar
    I hope you have had a good play with it over the weekend and have a little bit more of a feel for it.

    Your trigger looks very similar to mine Nayan especially the lower left-front part of the blade. Very poor casting and not finished. The safety is difficult to engage. Loosening the grub screw to relieve pressure on the safety then interferes with the trigger 1st and 2nd stage. Mine too was a little dusty but has since been pulled apart, cleaned and lubed. The magazine I think is ok but it will never get used. I have also kept with the mod fitted as the report from the muzzle is more important than the balance of the gun at the mo. Unfortunately this does make it feel a tad front heavy but not too bad, have felt worse.

    Also a lot of the claims on the box are distortions of the truth. :eek:

    The claimed fps is somewhat lower than stated [*see below] although I am getting around 60-80 shots with a 170bar fill (down to around 100/90 bar).
    The gauge is difficult to read accurately.
    The trigger is almost impossible to set up with the claimed 0.5lb pull without it being dangerous. I do not like the trigger. I have fiddled with it all weekend and got it somewhere close but really the gun needs to be stripped and the parts polished. So far the trigger spring has been replaced and a longer pointed grub screw fitted for the 2nd stage.


    *fps and fill pressure

    I have put mine thru the chrono with a 60 shot string filling to 170 bar and shooting down to approx 100 bar.
    The stock standard hammer spring fitted and gun was running as standard.
    Pellets were RWS Geco 7.0gr and It was bitterly cold with air temp of just 2c
    (heavier pellets and warmer temps may influence the data and shot count)

    Once filled 5 shots were fired over the chrono to make sure all was working ok before resetting and shooting 3 sets of 20 shots.........

    Chrono data.

    With a 170 bar fill I managed just 11 shots at over [the claimed] 500fps. (box says over 30 shots at 500fps!!!)
    - with a fill of 190bar max pressure it may give you the additional 20 shots over 500fps if you really need them??)

    First string of 20
    First 10 shots started at 528 fps dropping to 492fps by shot 12.
    From shot 12 to shot 20 went from 493 to 473fps.
    Av. 497.5
    St Dev. 14.9
    Min 473
    Max 528
    spread 55
    M/v 501

    Second string of 20
    Shot 1- 473
    Shot 10- 451
    Shot 20- 441

    Av. 453.5
    St Dev. 10.6
    Min 440
    Max 473
    Spread 33
    M/v 457


    Third string of 20
    Shot 1 - 441
    Shot 10 - 418
    Shot 20 - 395

    Av. 421.6
    St Dev. 12.8
    Min 395
    Max 441
    Spread 46
    M/v 425

    Each successive shot seems to drop by around 5fps and is fairly consistent with no major peaks.
    20 shots = approx 20 bar
    The most consistent results seem to be around 140 bar with just a couple of fps difference between shots.
    The very last shot of the 60 just crept into the 300 fps at 395.
    All of the above is subjective based on conditions etc and I shall be repeating the process at some time.

    Having said that the output of the pistol is not so much of an issue for me I don't want or need a full power pistol as I really only need 2-3 fpe for target shooting so I shall be trying to tweak it down.

    Hope you find all of that useful or interesting.

    :thumb:
     
    UrbDru06 and Nayan Peshkar like this.
  16. Nayan Peshkar

    Nayan Peshkar Member

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    @Nubble, awesome write up - this is likely the first decent report on this gun on the internet. You should do a quick video and post all of this useful info on YouTube. I used the PP800 very sparingly over the weekend and instead practiced with the AR20 - boy, it was cold! An almost full metal rifle on a cold day, Jeepers! I wish it wasn't getting dark so early, i can only ever practice over the weekends now.

    I have no skills or tools when it comes to stripping down a gun and polishing up the innards. Any advice on how i can get the PP800 to a more usable state? Maybe i could take your help :) The safety and the trigger are my biggest bug bears.
     
    Nubble likes this.
  17. Nubble

    Nubble Donator

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    @Nayan Peshkar


    Thank you Nayan, :D
    I found the grub screw that holds the safety in place puts far too much pressure on the safety itself. To operate smoothly it needs to be loosened by a turn or two which then interferes with the 1st and 2nd stage adjustment. I plan on replacing the grub screw with a shorter one. If and when I find one suitable I can always send you one.
    All you need to strip this gun is a few hex keys. If you have those you are sorted. ;)

    As for the trigger it (I hope) is a fairly easy fix.

    The stock needs to be removed (2 hex head bolts).
    The trigger and sear need to be removed. Very easy to do. PM me if you want help. This literally takes 30 secs.
    With the trigger removed I would polish (with wet 'n dry) the area where the 1st stage grub screw rubs over the sear.
    I would then polish the area at the opposite end of the sear plate which engages with the hammer once the gun is cocked (hammer latch/pin). This I predict would make for a much smoother release of the trigger.
    Replace the 2nd stage grub screw with a longer, pointed jobbie to reduce drag and increase adjustment range.
    Fit a lighter trigger spring.

    To help further I would then polish the hammer itself however this entails stripping the gun which again is very easy.

    All of the above polishing work still needs to be done to mine. I plan on doing a guide with photos at some point but currently I'm busy making a stock for my CP1. When I get an evening free I shall set to with the wet 'n dry.

    Wet n dry I have but you should be able to pick up a sheet or two from anywhere. I would start with around 320 or 400 grit and go 600 then 800 and finish with 1200.
    Trigger springs I have in stock
    2nd stage grub screws in stock plus (hopefully) a replacement for the safety.

    Hope that helps.

    :thumb:
     
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  18. Nubble

    Nubble Donator

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    Quick update...

    Not been shooting the PP800 this week, instead I have had a few bits out and made a few alterations.

    First I took the trigger and sear out, removed the grub screw that holds the safety in place and replaced it with a lighter one. The safety can now easily be operated with either your finger or thumb, locks into place with a positive 'click' and is now actually usable! In standard trim the safety is next to impossible to operate and requires a lot of force which means (if you like a safety) you end up not using it at all because it is so awkward.

    I have polished the sear plate where it mates with the trigger and likewise where it [the hammer latch] meets the hammer when cocked.
    The second stage grub screw has been replaced for a pointy one.
    A lighter hammer spring re-fitted. I'm experimenting with different lengths etc
    A lighter trigger spring

    I'll try putting a photo up at some point.

    Managed around 100 shots with it today. It was very blustery so shooting was tricky. I was trying a bit but also trying out how the modifications felt. Without doubt the trigger release is improved. Much smoother and all together nicer and now doesn't require the same amount of effort. It has a lot more feel and predictability although still just a touch heavy for me. I didn't really fiddle with setting up the trigger at all, i just wanted to shoot it. It was just so much easier to operate although it was blowing a hoolie and freezing cold.

    One thing I have noticed again today is the drop in shot count.
    My first fill was to around 170 bar, roughly. I shot 3 targets, 20 shots at each but only 15 at the last one as I needed to get another tin of pellets. The pressure on the gauge read approx 90 bar, perhaps a tad less.

    The second fill again to 170-ish, first 20 shots, gauge read around 140 bar, another target - 20 shots, just over 100 bar. Approx 60 shots each fill.....Hmmm Seemed like I was getting more shots with the original hammer spring? :confused: Really it needs putting thru the chrono again to see how it's performing which given the time I shall do. Also again with the original hammer spring fitted. I just wanted to get and shoot it as I've been busy with other things.

    So far I'm pleased with the alterations, they are easy to do and have made a difference which makes the gun much nicer to shoot. The cycling of the bolt requires a lot less effort and the trigger is altogether better. The trigger set up will most probably be next to get a tweak and then maybe carry on experimenting with hammer springs.

    Cheers all.
    :thumb:
     
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  19. Nubble

    Nubble Donator

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    Sear Plate - Before polishing
    [​IMG]


    Sear Plate - After polishing
    [​IMG]


    Sear Plate - Hammer latch end
    [​IMG]

    :thumb:
     
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  20. Azmodan

    Azmodan Member

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    hi
    is the trigger from the PP800 the same with CP1-M?
    if not, can they be swapped? (put the pp800 trigger on the cp1)

    thanx
     

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