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Penetration And Energy Dumping ....

Discussion in 'Videos' started by Autodidact, Dec 4, 2020.

  1. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    I saw this ...



    ... and thought it might interest others here ;)

    That terracotta wax looks fun :p

    I should be getting a .25 barrel in the next week or two, so I think I've just found myself some Xmas/New Year holiday entertainment :D

    Enjoy :thumb:
     
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  2. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    Thought it might be handy to stick this ....



    ... Here too ;)
     
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  3. Jamie P

    Jamie P Engaging Member

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    The presenter's conclusion was a "middle weight, lead round nose in .177"...If we can agree for a moment with this conclusion (and I fully accept that many people won't), what brands/names of pellet should be considered?
     
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  4. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    JSB and H&N have good reputation (in .177 I use JSB Exact Heavys and in .22 I use JSB Exact Jumbos) but what one gun loves another may hate, -sample packs are the way to establish what works for your gun and what doesn't ;)

    HTH :thumb:
     
    Jamie P likes this.
  5. Lostkiwi

    Lostkiwi Tomorrow will be a better day.

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    I've had good experiences of Accupel FT, FX and H&N FTT pellets but not in the one gun.
    For example the Accupel FT pellets work in everything as do the FX. The H&N won't work well in my PP700 but the others do. JSB Exact RS work well in the PP700 but the HW97 and HW57 hate them.
    Also test with pellet size. For example the H&N pellets I've tested are 4 50 but the FX and Accupel are 4.52 so could explain why the PP700 doesn't like the H&Ns.
     
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  6. The Iceman

    The Iceman Busy Member

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    Never been interested in differing pellet heads and designs, weights, shapes , colours etc, etc.
    Accuracy trumps all other .
    Nigh on 50 years hunting with sub 12 spring piston air rifles has taught me that a light weight pellet, dome heads and many, many hours practicing/ training, being able to reliably hit a 5p piece beats all the gimmicks.
    When I have found the pellet that gives results with a rifle I stick with that combination.
    In .22 I use Falcon Accuracy Plus, in .177 I use JSB Exact Express in all my rifles.
     
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  7. Jamie P

    Jamie P Engaging Member

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    Thanks for this, Iceman. So what pellet do you use? Cheers.
     
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  8. The Iceman

    The Iceman Busy Member

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    Here you go Jamie. :thumb:

    IMG_1478.JPG fullsizeoutput_5a.jpeg fullsizeoutput_5d.jpeg IMG_1483.JPG IMG_1487.JPG

    My favourite and most devastating pellet at sub 12 level is .177 JSB Exact Express 4.52, 7.87 g and in .22 cal its the Falcon Accuracy P plus 5.52, 13.43 g.
     
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  9. BallisticBill

    BallisticBill Too much keyboard, not enough action!

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    As above. If different pellets group the same I'd go with a high BC in preference to a low one - less affected by wind.
    These videos may look impressive but, personally, I don't shoot wax rabbits.
     
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  10. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    FWIW I also started shooting 50-odd years ago (but didn't stick to springers) :up:

    Nobody is suggesting that pellet selection is an alternative to accuracy are they?:confused:

    I certainly hope not :facepalm:

    I agree nobody should attempt hunting any live quarry at all until they can hit a 5p sized target again, and again, and again, all afternoon if necessary, as it prevents suffering ....

    ... But if you can shoot with consistent accuracy, and can then chose to use a pellet that does the job better, by dumping more of it's energy into the quarry and killing it more effectively it's a (humane) improvement rather than a gimmick isn't it? :shrug:

    And finding out what works best (and what doesn't) for your combination of equipment is part of that process (IMO of course) :thumb:
     
  11. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    Me either, (he made a point that it is what he has found most closely resembles flesh, I must've missed anything about making rabbits out of it) but as I posted above knowing what works (and to what level of efficiency) with your equipment has to be better than just buying what you've always bought because you've always bought it and are comfortable with it ...

    Ultimately if their weren't innovation you probably wouldn't have airguns, you'd have to throw rocks :p

    Nobody is saying anyone has to do this, or even that they have to watch the video, it was a post I thought might be helpful, not a compulsory exercise, if it's not for you fine, but my point earlier stands ...

    Doesn't it? :shrug:
     
  12. The Iceman

    The Iceman Busy Member

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    Hi Autodidact,
    At a very meagre 12ft/lb limit by the time your chosen pellet reaches your 30-35 yds ( average range) consistent accuracy trumps power.
    Not disagreeing with you at all but a pellet that gets results in all my guns gets my vote and each to their own of course

    A .177, .22, .25 or a .303 bullet in that 5p area, you hit the head its dead !

    Trying to compensate for "Poor accuracy, poor marksmanship " gets people listening to bigger holes, differing pellets, ( for me).

    Some previous years of crop protection, no gimmicks were ever required but accuracy was. :thumb:

    IMG_1149.JPG IMG_0587.JPG IMG_0637.JPG IMG_0676.JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
    Reevo17, Radlad, Jagdwaffen and 3 others like this.
  13. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    I agree re accuracy and IMO a person has to be a pretty p|ss poor example of a human being to attempt hunting when they haven't mastered the tools (and FWIW I haven't fired a .303 since the seventies which was a very long time ago now :p) ;)

    Be well fella :thumb:

    ETA: Most of my ratting is very close range and pass-through can be problematic, if the pellet is dumping its energy in the quarry there is less chance of damage to panels etc on the other side, the size of the "exit wounds" in the video demonstrated the lighter pellet would have continued further and done more damage to anything it hit, so for me the better they shed energy the better ...

    ... As long as they can group as well as the JSB Jumbos do for me (in .22) the more "energy dumping" the better, FWIW I certainly wouldn't attempt using the new .25 barrel I'm getting made for my sub-12 if I was going after rabbits at 35 yards (I'd use the .177 barrel and JSB Heavys) but I have it on good authority its a hoot for close-range rats (I've got a few tins of Hades in .25 for testing already, and some H&Ns on order that should arrive about the same time as the barrel) ;)

    Just saw the photos @The Iceman, nice shooting :thumb:
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  14. willo1962

    willo1962 Keyboard Hero

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    Interesting. My 99s in .177 loves RS but was tuned by @shauny to produce about 9.5flb specifically for that pellet.. I have just found Crosman Ultra Mag and they work fantastic in my .22 Ultra MMC but are rubbish in my SMK 78 and my Dads PR600. JSB seem to work great in everything, probably due to the softer lead. My .177 97k prefers Exact diablo over the heavies in my 20m garden range. I think this just proves you have to find the perfect pellet for your gun
     
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  15. willo1962

    willo1962 Keyboard Hero

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    It was the 70's for me with the .303. We had a cadet unit in my school (CCF) The Liverpool Collegiate and travelled around the country to different camps but shot mainly at Altcar range. Those .303 Lee Enfields sure pack a wallop when you are 13/16.
     
  16. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    I was in the ATC, I got my second marksman's patches using a Lee Enfield (the first was for .22) an old penny was the size of the group you needed and I shot 2 groups good enough on the same afternoon at RAF Locking, happy days :D

    TBH I think they'd still pack quite a wallop today :thumb:
     
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  17. Jamie P

    Jamie P Engaging Member

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    As I suspected, my question in response to Autodidact's original post & video has generated some fascinating discussion, with many differing opinions. There are so many ballistics gurus, experienced hunters and also general air weapons experts on here; it's amazing. Surely everyone must be in agreement that the best pellet for hunting/vermin control (ie killing quickly & humanely) is the one that exhibits consistent accuracy and is capable of dissipating most or all of its energy within the target. I appreciate that different pellets will perform differently in different rifles; indeed I'm sure the same pellet will behave differently in 2 supposedly identical rifles. My conclusion, therefore, is that it's a matter of finding which pellet performs best in any given rifle. I can hear so many people shouting at their screens "WELL OBVIOUSLY!!!", but that still leaves the question as to how you can identify which pellet, in your rifle, dumps most energy in the target. The accuracy & consistency piece can be audited, but what about the energy delivered to the target? At sub 12flbs & very small calibre surely this is an important factor, unlike large calibre heavy low velocity rounds that deliver significant energy or small calibre high velocity rounds that cause their trauma through energy dissipation and 'bouncing' off hard objects (ie bone) to cause damage to vital organs & vessels. So how do we find that 'dream' pellet? I'll get my coat...
     
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  18. Dr B

    Dr B Grizzly Airgunner

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    A propensity NOT to over penetrate would be a first step. A lot of those pellet tests are utterly flawed and not a viable test of what happens on live quarry at all - i remember Ballisticboy on here not being impressed - and he knows his onions.....
     
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  19. Reevo17

    Reevo17 Group therapy

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    Love the fact a springer was used in most pics

    Nice pooch too!
     
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  20. The Iceman

    The Iceman Busy Member

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    Aye up Reevo :wave:

    Just for you at Christmas buddy, just a few spring piston rifle pest control and dog pic`s.

    IMG_0259.JPG IMG_0332.JPG IMG_1014.JPG IMG_1079.JPG IMG_1198.JPG

    Shot placement, accuracy, trumps power and gimmicks every time, if you put the practice and range time in, an air rifle is a very effective tool for pest control.
     
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