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Pellet Drop

Discussion in 'Technical' started by StellaArtois Sr, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. StellaArtois Sr

    StellaArtois Sr Springer Whore

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    Update
    Had a look at my other HW98 and the barrel is exactly the same with a slight gap at the top, that's killed that idea. I suppose I could change the spring and the piton seal but I don't think it will do anything.
     
  2. StellaArtois Sr

    StellaArtois Sr Springer Whore

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    I stripped it all down again, cleaned it all up again, put a smear of moly around the bottom half of the piston seal, changed scopes again. Put it back together 7 shots spot on, then whoosh dropped again. Poxy thing. My next stage is to replace the TbT kit with the original and see if it still does the same. Getting really peed off with this.:frusty::shrug:
     
  3. Hampshire Tog

    Hampshire Tog Donator

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    I have had EXACTLY the same thing happen to me on a recently purchased HW98. 7 or 8 shots fine and then a drop of several inches over 30 yds. All shot from a bench rest, taking great care to hold consistently. Nothing wrong with the windage, just the elevation. I have been on the same journey as you. I tuned it as best I could and got it to a fps variance of max. 7fps over 10 shots so it couldn't be a drop in power. I had tried everything you have done, changed pellets and scope, stripped and lubed, put in a TBT kit, spring guide was very tight, took it out again. I have also noticed the small arch shaped gap at the top of the block and fired a few shots with a cigarette paper on top of the breech but it didn't move a whisker.

    I thought that I had sorted it by stopping using a sand bag rifle rest and resting on a bean bag instead, thus enduring the consistency of the hold and avoiding any harsh barrel harmonics due to the narrow pivot of a sand bag. This proved to be a temporary placebo and normal random performance soon resumed.

    So I am at a loss as to what the issue could be. All the wise old owls at the club are at a loss too. They have had a go and the same happens to them too.

    It's a real pity because it's a beautiful gun otherwise and a good weight to hold. Curious that the same issue is happening to two versions of the same rifle which must be very close in manufacturing date.

    Let me know if you crack it and what the cure is.

    Good luck!
     
    StellaArtois Sr and shergar like this.
  4. The burpster

    The burpster Engaging Member

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    I have suggestion based on my owning 2 HW100s (sorry I know it’s not a springer but what I’m suggesting is a barrel issue and therefore it’s irrelevant how the air is compressed to push the pellet down the barrel), I was made aware of a similar issue with a 10yr old 100 that the owner had got so p,ssed off with he changed the barrel and problem solved!
    Having found that is was the barrel he did some investigation and found there was a light burr in the muzzle end on the inside facet of where the crown met the rifling. Most likely caused when the barrel was finished. This caused a very slight abrasion as the first pellets went through and then when the build up was enough it came off as a pellet went through causing the pellet to deflect. As the build up and release was a pattern so was the change in pellet flight.
    I had a similar pattern of flyers with my 100KS, so based on their experience I polished the crown (by hand) with a cut down Dreemel rubber polishing wheel to the correct angle. It worked, and now I only get inaccuracies as we all do, bent, missshaped pellets and when something changes.

    Just my observations and hoping it may help!

    NB Weihrauch barrels are by and large very good but not 100% perfect 100% of the time!
     
  5. shergar

    shergar Engaging Member

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    Checked end of barrel 95k , flat no perceivable bevel. By contrast 99 is significantly rounded with sweet internal bevel into bore.
    Will be polishing to replicate similar bevel on 95. Thanks to,The burpster, for useful observations.
     
  6. StellaArtois Sr

    StellaArtois Sr Springer Whore

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    Latest attempt to fix it.
    I went to the Barbers today and as usual we talk about shooting, as it happens he is a RFD. I asked the question about my HW98 and he said there is probably not enough lube in the rifle causing friction and it is heating up. Which explains why after a while when I haven't used it, it is then spot on for a few shots. The mention of lube had been mentioned earlier in the thread, but mostly about the spring. I did also have a message from Mr TbT himself to put a gnats chuff of moly around the bottom half of the seal, alas it didn't work. Today it was all taken apart yet again. When I looked at it, it was actually very dry, hardly anything on the piston and not much on the spring. Basically I have put quite a bit on (in comparison to what was on there) so hopefully down the range tomorrow will prove to be a success.
    I will give an update tomorrow, normally I am a very optimistic person, but not feeling it with this rifle.
     
  7. StellaArtois Sr

    StellaArtois Sr Springer Whore

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    A waste of bloody time that was, as you have probably gathered it didn't work. :frusty:
     
  8. Gary Jones

    Gary Jones Busy Member

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    Bloody hell mate, that's something I would never think of but sounds totally feasible. Definitely a tip worth knowing.

    :thumb:
     
  9. StellaArtois Sr

    StellaArtois Sr Springer Whore

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    The latest update on this poxy rifle is. I replaced the spring guide kit with the original one. I thought it probably wont make any difference but it eliminates that from the changes made to the rifle. I was right it didn't make any difference. I then used 1000 wet and dry down the end of the barrel to see if there was an issue with the crown as suggested earlier in the thread. I then replaced the new piston seal with a new Ozzie piston seal. Up at the range bloody fantastic pellet on pellet then after about 30 shots it dropped 4 mildots again. Flipping rifle is driving me mad I said. (well sort of). So my theory now, is to strip it down for the umpteenth time and check the new Ozzie to seal to see if there any any marks on it. If there are then I will be thoroughly cleaning the chamber out, then giving it a good rubbing down with 1200 wet and dry to see it removes any burrs in the chamber. If it is still a pile of crap after that, then it is either going in The Grand Union Canal or I may have words with SFS to see what they can do with it.
    Ade :mad::thumb:
     
    foxtrott likes this.
  10. FPoole

    FPoole Busy Member

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    The fact that the 1000 grit down the barrel seemed to extend the time it takes to go off, it may be barrel related after all.
     
  11. sithe79

    sithe79 Donator

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    I had this same problem with my dads hw30s in .177. I returned the first one, only for the second to do the same. The rfd wasn't interested as they couldn't find a fault. I changed everything apart from the piston, including a brand new. 22 barrel. Still no joy. Baffles me to this day. I'm watching this with interest. I hope you get it sorted out.
    Atb,
    Simon
     
  12. StellaArtois Sr

    StellaArtois Sr Springer Whore

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    Valid point actually hadn't though of it that way. Going to strip it all down tomorrow and do my cleaning of the chamber, if that doesn't work then I will try to do the barrel a bit more before throwing it in the canal.
    Ade :thumb:
     
  13. StellaArtois Sr

    StellaArtois Sr Springer Whore

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    And there was me reading this getting excited to see what the answer was. Oh well hopefully I can give you the answer. Ade :thumb:
     
  14. sithe79

    sithe79 Donator

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    Sorry, still no answer. It was driving me mad. It was my dads birthday present, and I felt really bad about it. I ended up getting him a 99, which hasn't been as accurate as my 99, so again, I have bought a factory screwcut barrel and will hopefully sort that out.
    After I changed the 30s barrel we had alot of good shots without fault, all bang on at about 18m, I think about 250 from memory. Then the same thing happened again. It's very frustrating, as the chrono readings didn't change a great deal when the shots were dropping. And they were dropping up to about 10" in 10m, again from memory. I'm tempted to borrow it from my dad to try again. I hope you or I can get to the bottom of it.:mad: :up:
     
  15. BallisticBill

    BallisticBill Engaging Member

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    I don't think it's (only) the internals or you would see a big enough change in MV to account for the drop. Also, as it is a drop rather than general spread, I don't think it's a barrel fouling problem. Are you sure you have ruled out barrel misalignment? I would use a laser, either bore a sighter or mini-laser clamped on the barrel. You can view the laser dot through your scope to see if the barrel is returning to the same place.
     
    Jemsbro likes this.
  16. StellaArtois Sr

    StellaArtois Sr Springer Whore

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    Willing to check anything out, so that will be on the list if tomorrow fails, which I half expect it to.
    Could if they are damaged be those poxy washers that go around the axis bolt causing the issue ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  17. shergar

    shergar Engaging Member

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    Been following this thread with interest. Experienced pellet drop similar to others. Had repeat today shooting HW99s. No moderator to clip pellet,power consistent as was lock up. Re examined hold on rifle ensuring left hand was supporting but not gripping. Immediately reverted to tight groups on target.
    Can't recall grip with pellet drop as unaware of doing anything different, but will now eliminate other variables besides rifle.
     
  18. johnnyv

    johnnyv Engaging Member

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    Does it do it with differant ammo types
    Had the same problem with a .20 gun a few years back whereby my premium brand pellet of which I'd bought a big batch of were found to be variable in their size and after much frustration and stripping etc I finally cottoned on to the fact that some were loose and others from the same tin needed more of a thumb into the breech

    Changed brand and all was good

    Bit of a poke in the dark as yours seems to be repeatable after 7 shots or so but stranger things have happened:facepalm:
     
  19. sithe79

    sithe79 Donator

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    I have tried loads of different pellets and head sizes. Still had the same problems. I can't speak for the OP.
    Thanks,
    Simon
     
  20. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    I've had a problem with a '95 stringing vertically before - the register face on the underside of the barrel and the wedge between the jaws that it engages against weren't contacting fully (either because of a machining fault or a dodgy breech seal) meaning that the lockup was controlled by the breech seal crush, not the intended register faces. Under recoil the compressible breech seal was allowing variable amounts of crush, causing barrel movement and the subsequent stringing. You could try adding a piece of shim or two between these surfaces and see if the stringing disappears..
     

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