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Pcp Wont Fill! Please Help

Discussion in 'Technical' started by ShropshireDog, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. ShropshireDog

    ShropshireDog Member

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    Firstly, thank you for any help you can offer (trust me, it's really appreciated).

    I bought a second hand Gamo Phox. Rifle is in good condition, and came with some pressure in the tank. I had to buy another styrup pump as the one with it wasnt working, and also bought another fill adaptor. I tried to fill the rifle, but no joy. I took it to a gun shop to have it filled with a tank just to make sure the seals are all good and it would fill, and everything was fine.

    I must admit here that the pump i bought was a cheap ebay special (times are hard lol). Now the pump delivers air to the fill adaptor (i have used PTFE tape to ensure no leaks and done a quick pressure test too). The pump start to build pressure, but after 10 stokes it becomes too hard to pump. I dont think any air is passing to the rifle (although i cant be positive here). When the pressure release valve is released a good amount of air pressure is released.

    I know this is probably rather school boy, but being my first PCP, and being out of the game for a long time, in stuck. Any input please?
     
  2. monsta41

    monsta41 Donator

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    it might need a blast of air from a tank to free up the valve, you arent going to get that with a pump..do you know anyone with a tank?
     
    ShropshireDog likes this.
  3. ukglyn

    ukglyn Big Poster

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    I agree with Monsta, I have heard that from empty they can need a blast from a tank to pressurize the valve.
     
    ShropshireDog likes this.
  4. Sky

    Sky Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Well, if it filled OK in the shop, that means the gun is OK.

    How low have you let the level get? Ideally, you don't want to let it below about 120 bar. If you've let it get lower than that, then I suspect it's as Carl and Glyn have said too.
     
    ShropshireDog likes this.
  5. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    I think the pump is not designed to fill an air rifle....just because the Chinese have told you it is suitable doesn't mean it is. They don't care, they just want to sell stuff and undermine the rest of the world's economy. I refuse to help them do this. You think you have saved money, you haven't, you have wasted however much you spent on an unsuitable item.
    If the valve opens when filled by tank and fills from a multi-stage pump, then it is your pump. You are building as much pressure as the single stage pump can, but it is insufficient to open the vlave with the pressure behind it. You have to generate MORE pressure on the pump side than is on the rifle side of the valve in order for there to be any transfer of air. This requires a multi-stage pump unless you are very strong.

    Try a 4-stage pump. being 4-stage it means you have to pump 4x as many strokes to generate the same pressure as a 1 stage pump. So you do more work, but each pump stroke requires less energy - like going down into bottom gear on mountain bike, you pedal like hell and go virtually nowhere, but it gives you the ability to pedal up Porlock Hill, albeit slowly.
     
    ShropshireDog, monsta41 and Sky like this.
  6. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    Ah - how much pressure is there in the rifle now? Did you shoot it down to nothing? If so, try cocking it and then pump.....

    DO NOT FILL TO SWP PRESSURE. That is way too much and will make it inaccurate. Fill to about 180bar, and shoot it down to 110bar only. I have no idea how many shots that will be, you will have to work it out for yourself. Always keep it topped up to JUST the top of the sweet sector of pressure and don't let it go below the bottom of the sweet spot (pressures suggested above 180 -110). Your particular rifle might vary a little from these pressures, but they won't be far off - maybe 185 - 95, or 175 - 85...but all in the same ball park. The ONLY time it varies from this is with a regulated rifle and then you mustn't drop below the set pressure of the regulator, so again, keep it topped up !
     
    ShropshireDog likes this.
  7. TrickyDicky

    TrickyDicky Keyboard Hero

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    TBH with the money, you have spent buying a second pump you could have better spent it on a tank and saved yourself a lot of trouble.
     
    Accuspell and ShropshireDog like this.
  8. ShropshireDog

    ShropshireDog Member

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    Thanks all. My first thought was that a quick blast with a tank might loosen it up so thats what the shop did. I think the pump is the issue. The pressure has not gone into the red at all luckily, so will have to look into another filling method. Whats the most cost effective method for not much use (i refuse to connect myself with the word cheap lol).
     
  9. monsta41

    monsta41 Donator

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    i would say get a 3 or 4 litre air tank... i bought a 7l and its heavy, but the amount i shoot it lasts nearly a year on a fill
     
    Accuspell likes this.
  10. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    I bought a 12-litre because the dive shop is about 30 miles away. Likewise, it lasts me about 6 months, so having it filled twice a year, say 5 times in 2 years isn't too onerous and you can normally fit a filling trip in with something else.

    How far away from a dive shop are you Shropsdog? If you put a location in your name plate, it will help peole give you much better, tailored advice, because everyone will have an idea of what there is near you. We aren't Big Brother that you have to hide from you know!
     
  11. Pellet Gun Pete

    Pellet Gun Pete Well-Known Member

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    I've bought 2 eBay pumps, one for me, one for my cousin. I fill my P15 to 250bar with it without issue. My cousin has had no problems with his either. For what they cost I can't believe how good they are. I suspect yours is suffering from a bit of "newness" and something has stuck, or has a bit of manufacturing crud in it? Take a look in it, it's probably something simple.
    I was going to buy a bottle, but as the pressure drops below 250 bar, I'll need to top it up with the pump anyway, so I've not bothered.

    Pete
     
  12. Jesterdog

    Jesterdog Donator

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    I bought a cheap chinese pump, works ok
    I assume your pump has a gauge on it. What pressure does it show when you gave up pumping?
    Mine takes about 10 pumps, to raise the pressure in the feed line, before the rifle starts taking air (at 100bar)
     
    Pellet Gun Pete likes this.
  13. Pellet Gun Pete

    Pellet Gun Pete Well-Known Member

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    Good point Jesterdog, these are not "easy" when the pressure builds. Maybe you're not trying hard enough, and having re-read the original post you've had the problem now with two different pumps? My guess is you just need to keep going. It'll take a good few minutes to fill your gun, and you may need to take a few rest breaks, it's hard work once the pressure gets above 100 bar. There's a knack to it too, full slow strokes, stopping briefly at both the top and bottom. Use your body weight to push the pump down, by keeping your arms straight.

    Pete
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  14. Bozz

    Bozz Engaging Member

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    Hi is there any chance you have got ant PTFE tape over the small bore of the fittings blocking the air route, and can you get air through the fill valve when not connected to gun. All best Graham
     
  15. FerreT985

    FerreT985 Engaging Member

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    My phox has been completely stripped down so I could have a gander at what I'm working with when I come to fit a regulator.
    Put it back together and filled it with the pump provided, no problem at all. It only gets stiff to pump up around the 180 bar mark. So maybe as said above, the pump is at fault?
     

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