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Original 50 Advice Please

Discussion in 'Vintage collectable airguns' started by Brimfire, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. Brimfire

    Brimfire Engaging Member

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    Always wanted one of these beautiful airguns and now I've got one - a 1976 .22 with the Schnabel stock.

    Lovely.

    All is not well in Brimfireland though - try as I might, I can't get it to group worth a toss.

    I started off with a cheap and (very) nasty short scope from fleabay, the idea being to get a sort of WW2 Mauser sniper style look combined with the misguided belief that even cheap scopes are acceptable these days. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Terrible distortive image and wouldn't focus. Try again.

    My Webley Vulcan then gave up it's Tasco 3-9x40 for the cause and it was back to the range. Of course, I used a set of nondescript mounts which wouldn't grip the 50's rail and the rear mount slid off within a handful of shots.

    The next week, I shoved some proper SportsMatch efforts on and things stayed put. However, on the 25m range, I was struggling to get groups under four inches. My "go to" pellet is the Superdome and they've never let me down with any gun I've put them through. Except this one. Some fellow club members donated a variety of pellets to try but none gave much better performance and H&N FTTs never even hit the targets.

    So, before I get medieval on it's ass, can other forum members tell me what pellets their 50s prefer and how (indeed if) they clean their barrels?

    My impression is that this gun is also very hold sensitive despite using the Artillery technique - anyone else think this?

    Thanks in advance.
     
    Blue BSA likes this.
  2. The Iceman

    The Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Hi Brimfire,
    From many moons ago my memory of my mates 50 - do not attempt to work on this rifle mate as they are a nightmare to put back together.
    I would suggest cleaning the barrel with felt pellets through the tap loader, check all your stock screws stay tight.
    Personally my first port of call would be a gunsmith to check out the main spring, seals, piston and correct lubes etc, etc.
    At best these old 50`s will be around 8 ft/lbs.

    Hope this helped any.

    atb Mark.
     
    talent likes this.
  3. Brimfire

    Brimfire Engaging Member

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    Thanks Mark.
    I've got some .22 Remington Cleansers ordered so I'll be giving them a try.
    A friend suggested I try them with a drop of Brasso to add an extra amount of scrubby abrasiveness to the process.

    Not 100% sure about that.

    I'm mechanically adept but I am daunted by tales of the trigger assembly so I'm not looking to strip, clean and lube the internals anytime soon.
     
  4. rabbitcatcher

    rabbitcatcher Engaging Member

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    I was pellet testing my .22 original 45 recently and superdomes were too loose in the breech but hobbys shot well but jsb express(used in my hw95) shot superbly!Worth a try in an old .22 rifle at least.
     
  5. Brimfire

    Brimfire Engaging Member

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    Good to know - I'll give them a try.
    I'd imagine the barrels are of a similar internal construction/rifling so why not?
     
  6. Frog

    Frog Busy Member

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    Have you chrono'ed it? Also worth checking the crown. Is the tap known to be well aligned?
     
    hmangphilly likes this.
  7. Brimfire

    Brimfire Engaging Member

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    Nope, haven't ran it over the chrono yet due to time restraints.
    There's a bit of a dieselly smell off it during the first two or three shots but that passes and I'd expect that of most old(ish) springers.
    There's no discernible play in any direction from the tap, it feels nicely smooth with what (in the absence of another 50 for comparison) I'd consider a good tightness.
    I'll check the crown soon.
     
  8. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Busy Member

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    As this

    check the alignment of the tap
     
  9. Brimfire

    Brimfire Engaging Member

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    What's the best way to do that?
     
  10. Bruno27

    Bruno27 Engaging Member

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    I have done it on my .22 webley tracker using an endoscope. ~£25 from fleabay.
     
    Blue BSA likes this.
  11. Brimfire

    Brimfire Engaging Member

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    Bruno27 - that's good to know.
    Think someone at work might have one of them...
     
  12. Brimfire

    Brimfire Engaging Member

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    Borrowed this bit of kit but didn't get far as the probe end has a diameter of 5.57mm - wouldn't fit!
    Endo.JPG
     
  13. Brimfire

    Brimfire Engaging Member

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    Did however get a few felt pellets down the barrel (with Superdome chasers) and there was quite a bit of muck on the ones I recovered.
     
  14. Brimfire

    Brimfire Engaging Member

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    Ran out of time before I was happy with the state of things, I'll probably put a dozen or so of them down the barrel next opportunity. Cleans.JPG
     
  15. Brimfire

    Brimfire Engaging Member

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    Also managed a short chrono session. 13 shots (Superdomes) from cold, all of which in the 460-470pps range with flyers at 423 and 480fps.
    Not perfect but consistent enough, I think.

    The barrel crown also looks good.
    Crown.JPG
    Won't be able to do any accuracy testing for a week or so which'll give me time to further clean the barrel. And, just on the off chance that the scope is a bit erratic, I'll take a spare to the range too - watch this space!
     
  16. The Iceman

    The Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Hi Brimfire, poor consistency between shots on the chrono mate 423 ft/s to 480 ft/s .
    Mate load your rifle up, drape a light tissue paper over the loading tap area and fire her off in a safe, still air place.
    Does the tissue paper get blown/any movement in it at all ?

    A 14.5 g RWS Superdome at
    470 ft/sec = 7.1 ft/lbs

    423 ft/sec = 5.76 ft/lbs

    480 ft/sec = 7.4 ft/lbs

    Something is clearly not right, get her checked out before shooting her again, might even have a broken end to the mainspring, - all guesswork i know ?

    Good luck,
    Mark.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    Brimfire likes this.
  17. Bruno27

    Bruno27 Engaging Member

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    My endoscope. Camera has 6 very small leds. Currently attached to a skewer to inspect bottom of action.
    I have been using it with VLC Media player
    Box says Ø 7mm camera but is 5mm. A must have for the airgun tinkerer
    [​IMG]
     
    Brimfire likes this.
  18. louisvanhovell

    louisvanhovell Engaging Member

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    Repaired this Model 50 for a friend.
    It was a bit tricky to disassemble, but once you know how it works, it's straightforward enough. Lots of preload though.
    The gun was nasty to shoot first, and inconsistent too. Lots of vibrations and a heavy trigger.
    Now it's really smooth and consistent. 600 ft/s with 8.44 gr .177 JSB's.
    So not a .22 like yours, but these alterations might help to solve the issues that you're experiencing.
    Can you disassemble it? I can guide you through the process if you want. You need a workbench or a spring compressor.
    Cleaning the barrel properly is only possible in a disassembled state. I use a Napier pull through kit.
    Then perhaps your leather piston washer is perished. This might explain the inconsistency.
    Also your spring might be bent or broken.
    Just thoughts.
    I replaced the leather piston washer with a 28 mm synthetic Vortek seal with an adapter. Those kits can be bought for 16 pounds.
    It works very well and the gun is not slammy at all.
    I placed a delrin spring guide which helps to reduce vibrations too. But it is not necessary.
    The inside of the cylinder is now polished.
    I took one coil off the trigger spring. It's such a strong spring - not nice imo.
    That trigger mechanism is surprisingly good.
    It's a joy to shoot. Even though I greatly prefer shorter, smaller, lighter guns.
    Hope this helps.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
    Blue BSA, cloverleaf and Brimfire like this.
  19. Brimfire

    Brimfire Engaging Member

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    Bruno27, just had a look on fleabay at these - dirt cheap some of them. However, I can't find one that's smaller than 5.5 mm.
    Did find ones with earwax removal attachments though - wasn't expecting that!
    I'll keep searching as it would be nice to get one that could handle .177 barrels too.
     
  20. Brimfire

    Brimfire Engaging Member

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    Hey Mark.

    During the chrono testing, I tried to replay/playback the figures and fumbled the buttons, deleting the readings before I could jot them down. So I'm not sure my stated fps figures are relating the whole picture - the 423fps reading is indeed well off the pace but it was just the one while every other reading was in the 465fps ballpark with a single 15fps blip up to 480fps. I never inspected the pellets beforehand which might account for the low flyer and I'm not overly concerned about 15fps - got other guns of similar consistency which shoot accurately.

    I agree that all is not right though. The power is a shade low (I'm lead to believe 9ft/lbs is the norm) and the shot cycle isn't as smooth as I'd like. I realise she's old and maybe shouldn't be likened to more modern guns but there's no other 50s in my vicinity that I can compare it to so I'm a little in the dark. I'm going to investigate as much as possible before I get into the guts of the gun.
     
    The Iceman likes this.

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