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New woodland perm

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by harry brown, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. harry brown

    harry brown Banned BANNED

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    I've acquired a few new permissions lately (too many possibly), one of them being a thirty acre wood. I had applied for it to be cleared for FAC for the Muntjac but it's not looking very good at moment, although I've not given up hope.
    I have never shot in the wood and only took a quick look at it for the first time last week. I did see several squirrels within a couple of minutes so assume there are plenty in there.

    I'm thinking about building some feeders for them to make it a fruitful visit each time I go. I doubt I'll visit it often as it's the other side of town from me. Anyone had experience of feeding stations and do they need topping up regularly or could I build some with big hoppers full of nuts? I don't want to be driving to it frequently to bait the feeders.

    I might invite someone who lives nearer off the forum and who doesn't yet have a permission to shoot anywhere, providing they bait up the feeders when required. I need to clear that with the land owner first before opening an invite. According to the owner I'm the only person with permission to shot it, so expect it's full of all sorts of pest species if it's being left alone for years.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. landymick

    landymick Very Active

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    Nice one,even better if not shot on before.
     
  3. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    Well done on the new shoot.

    My advice would be to make some oil drum feeders.

    Get a couple of old oil drums (garages) we get ours from a garage that repairs lorrys for £10 in the tea fund. Cut part of the top off.

    Burn them out to remove any oil.

    Cut a slot 6 inches long horizontally at the very bottom of the side of the barrel.
    Tap the barrel in above the cut a little to make the slot wide. About as wide as your thumb.
    Drill a small drain hole in the bottom of the barrel below your slot.
    Make some sort of lid from wood or tin and hold it down with a brick.

    Fill the barrel with feed wheat many farmers will sell this by the bag cheaply for chickens.

    If you can get old metal dustbins you can use them instead of an oil drum and they only take seconds to make.

    These feeders will work on Deer, squirrels, and game birds.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
  4. andy46

    andy46 Donator

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    well done on the permission,enjoy
     
  5. Stevie Darling

    Stevie Darling Sexual tyrannosaurus

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    Well done mate,

    looks smashing:)
     
  6. harry brown

    harry brown Banned BANNED

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    Cheers Andy, that sounds like a plan to me. I hadn't considered making such big feeders but those look the best way forward.
    Even if the wood is refused clearance for FAC (I Haven't offered to use high seats yet). Would I be able to use a shottie with slugs for Muntjac?
     
  7. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    If it's not safe for .223 it's no way safe for slugs they are far more dangerous.
    A shotgun slug travels further and with more power than .30-06.

    If the landowner wants them gone as they are causing damage you may shoot them with AAA shot.
    You really want a 3.5 inch chamber full or extra full and 64 gram shells for 60 yards, you can reduce the load the nearer you can get.
    This is only allowed if shooting them as vermin to prevent damage to the woodland or crops.
    Cheers Andy
     
  8. harry brown

    harry brown Banned BANNED

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    Okay thanks for that info Andy. They are vermin and the owner wants them gone. There are also Roe or Fallow in there according to the owner.
    If the FEO doesn't clear it I'll invite a friend with an open ticket to bring a gun.
     
  9. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    If the feo fails to clear the land safe make sure you tell your mate with the open ticket that the feo won't clear it. Get him over to walk the wood with you before he turns up to shoot.

    Normally if the feo knows deer need controlling and they won't clear it as safe for CF it's for good reason.

    If the owner wants the deer controlled your only option maybe high seats with rifle or shotgun depending how unsafe that area of the wood is.

    Or to bait them to safer areas of the wood with salt licks food and water where a rifle can be used safely if there is such an area.
    ( tell the feo that is what you will do, the whole wood does not need to be safe for him to clear it just one large enough part)

    If you have to use the shotgun and AAA shot on larger deer keep it under 45 yards. Even AAA shot is dangerous in the wrong place 80 pellets at 55ftlbs.
    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
  10. Carpy_killer

    Carpy_killer Well-Known Member

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    Where are you
     
  11. harry brown

    harry brown Banned BANNED

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    Thanks Andy,

    I think the real issue is the surrounding land is not owned by the same person. It's possible it may be cleared if I use high seats, but as it's an ongoing enquiry I think I'll await an official response from the FEO, before getting too far ahead of myself.
    The shooter with an open ticket is a member on here.

    As I said earlier I have more perms than I can realistically keep on top of myself now, so I'll invite one or two airgun shooters to shoot it if the owner is agreeable. It would be a great perm for a new 'responsible' shooter to get stuck into.
     
  12. The Robin

    The Robin Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Looks like a great spot you've got, I'm sure you will have plenty of hours shooting on there :up:
     
  13. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    Should not be that bad then I was thinking houses, roads, footpaths.
    Has the feo not walked it with you yet? You might want to get the strimmer out before he does they don't like stingers :) lol. One of the things the feo will be concerned about is how open the wood is, what is the possibility of a bullet striking a twig and deflecting on its way to the target.
    Good luck.
    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
  14. harry brown

    harry brown Banned BANNED

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    On a positive, just found an airgun shooter from this forum who appears to be ideal for sharing the perm with and it's on his doorstep!
     
  15. matt_hooks

    matt_hooks Member

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    Firstly, a shotgun slug is more dangerous and travels further than a 30-06? Don't think so. The shotgun slug might start with considerably more muzzle energy, but it sheds velocity, and therefore energy, at a much faster rate than a rifle bullet.

    The maximum range for a shotgun slug is around the 4 to 500 yard mark, due to tumbling and very poor ballistics. A 30-06 can chuck a bullet well over 2 miles.

    Of course, as safe shots, we would only fire either where there was a safe backstop, so either round is perfectly safe. Personally I wouldn't use slug on deer if I had a rifle handy, mainly due to the greater accuracy available with a spin stabilised projectile. Also solid slugs are an FAC only item and it's highly unlikely you'd get them conditioned for use on deer.

    As for the feo approving the wood, how much FAC experience do you have? The land approval, at least initially, seems to be more about the person shooting than anything else. If you are knowledgable and can suggest safe lines of fire, even suggest locating high seats and telll him where and why, then he's unlikely to turn the request down.

    As you've said, the other option is to invite someone with an open cert to shoot it.

    I still think high seats are the way forward for you, unless there are obvious backstops. An angled shot in to soft earth is as safe as it gets.
     
  16. harry brown

    harry brown Banned BANNED

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    Like I said earlier, it's an ongoing enquiry so as for reasons for possible refusal I'm not sure yet. I disagree with the comment you make about the 'person shooting' The FLO was crystal clear about some other land I requested cleared, that his issues would be more to do with the fact the land would be cleared for any shooter up to that calibre to shoot the land, and that was his main concern.

    I think high seats are the only way it's likely to be cleared, but I'll wait until I hear back from them before suggesting any further options. I agree that'll be the best course to take.

    A mate on here with an open ticket lives pretty close and he'll help me out if needed.
     
  17. bf95

    bf95 Donator

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    This is when one of those 50 cal air rifles would be handy or would they need to be cleared as FAC too? That perm looks great though!
     
  18. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    Total incorrect on many points.

    The US army research with radar tracking bullets proved shotgun slugs travel further than .30-06 in many cases.

    Land approval will have nothing to do with the person shooting. Land is cleared for xyz caliber for everyone and remains cleared for everyone up to that caliber.

    Many people do get slugs conditioned for deer, as the deer act allows it it's hard for them to say no. Although a rifle is more suitable.
    The issue in dense woodland is often the chance of deflection on the way to the target.
    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2014
  19. matt_hooks

    matt_hooks Member

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    Were the slugs fired from rifled barrels? Anyway, as I say, moot as we all only fire them where there is a safe backstop. I'd be interested in seeing that data though if you have a link.

    Land approval SHOULD have nothing to do with the person. However, as we all know, there is no such thing as land that is inherently safe or unsafe, only safe and unsafe shooters. Whilst what you say should be true, in my experience an experienced shooter will be able to get approval on land where an inexperienced shooter would not. Clearing land up to a certain calibre is, as we all know, nonsensical. A 22-250 will fly faster and further than a slow heavy bullet like a .45 pistol calibre, and yet if the land is cleared for .243 then 22-250 is allowed but .45 is not.

    I've spoken to many people and don't know anyone who has FAC shotgun shells/solid slugs conditioned for deer. Anybody here actually have them? I know that TVP will not approve them for anything other than practical shotgun.

    R10, just out of interest, do you hold FAC/SGC?
     
  20. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    A 12 foot pound air rifle pellet can travel further than the 400-500 yards you say a shotgun slug will travel. The ricochet distance after one has hit the floor can be more than 1000 yards.
    .50 sabot slugs were tested, obviously only just deer legal ( prevention of damage exemption) in the uk as quite a light slug. A one ounce slug may travel a little further or not quite so far?
    Using any kind of slug other than on super safe areas with good backstops is madness in comparison to a .223 /.243, or any other deer rifle using lighter bullets that break up more easily.
    The problem with slugs is they have to be stable without being spun so they are designed front heavy back light. On ricochet they can stabilise again, a bullet will tumble rapidly losing more energy.

    Many many gamekeepers and farmers have solid slug granted for deer, if you have a shotgun with you, it's possible to take an injured deer beyond the range of shot at once with just a change of cartridge.
    You don't carry a deer rifle around with you all day just incase. I have never felt the need for slugs but many do.



    .[​IMG]

    I think lots of land is inherently unsafe. If a field / wood is surrounded by roads and houses and no backstops that land is not safe.
    Even up a high seat into soft earth, not safe for me, you may find that one brick or get a deflection off of something ( rape stem etc). Shoot the deer of fox in another field.
    If you analyse an average farm a large amount of the land will be unsafe. A good safe shooter can't make a field safe to shoot on all he can do is not shoot on it.
    The rest of the land is only "possibly safe" dependant on the shooters actions.


    Just because the home office have put some nonsense in the guidance to save money on land clearance does not make all land possibly safe.


    .45 pistol calibers are not on the list and so should not be granted for vermin control anyway. What use would they be for vermin control?

    I have owned firearms for 32 years. I have deer management and gamekeeping qualifications. ( 1983, 1984, sparsholt agricultural college )
    I have worked for some of the largest and some of the smallest shoots in the country and been involved in gamekeeping in numerous ways for the last 32 years. Now part time for 3 estates in lincolnshire.
    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014

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