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Mildly entertaining BSA thread on the other side..

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by cloverleaf, Jun 29, 2014.

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  1. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Worth a read if you have 5 minutes to spare - linky..

    While not (yet) being your typical meathead-on-meathead clusterfap of petty, personal-insults we've come to expect from the other side, there are a few notable highlights, including:

    - Speculation as to the future of BSA

    - The usual blindly pro-BSA head-in-the-sand brigade furiously and incredulously denying that there are any problems with the brand or their products

    - A glimpse of Gamo's "new" PCP (non-spoiler - yes, it's basically a cheapened BSA PCP and doesn't look like much cop tbh)

    - A certain well-known industry pundit and super-optimistic pusher-of-products struggling to maintain his "problems? Nah mate, they're all great - what are you talking about?" facade in the face of growing questioning of the brand's product quality / reliability - the charge being led valiantly by our own secretagentmole :p


    No fireworks as yet but worth a read IMO before someone steps out of line and the establishment use it as an excuse to bin the thread :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  2. secretagentmole

    secretagentmole Low down, dirty and quiet...

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    What me? All I did was say it as I saw it!

    I have 3 BSA rifles in my collection, the Superb 10, the Goldstar and the Meteor Mark 4. I have also owned several Super 10s along the route to where I am now, as well as one damned MMC Ultra. The wife had an SE Scorpion. Which one did we have problems with? The SE Scorpion!

    Says a lot when the newest gun was built so badly it had to go back to BSA to be sorted out!

    Now that the spring powered debacle that is the Lightning continues, along with magazine woes which affect Scorpion, Ultra and R10 indisriminately, add to that the R10 has gone through another bad batch of guns (regulator woes again), the SE Scorpions still refusing to group and Ultra bolts snapping, makes you want to buy British doesn't it?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  3. Tinbum

    Tinbum Delusions of adequacy

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    Fetch my largest waders...........
     
  4. Tim_B

    Tim_B Major Poster

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    had already seen it - go Mr Mole!
     
  5. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    I believe so - if not, your namesake :p

    Good work on sticking it to the man in such blunt, concise and legitimate terms - I totally agree (on this occasion if not always) and doff my hat to you :up:
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  6. secretagentmole

    secretagentmole Low down, dirty and quiet...

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    I just hate the usual marketing bullcrap he spouts when he wants to shift a few copies of his magazines!
     
  7. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    I know and again agree entirely..

    On the one hand I respect the man in question for his defence of the sport in the public eye and don't doubt his experience or knowledge of the industry.

    What disappoints me greatly is his blatant subservience to the manufacturers and his willingness to downplay or even flatly deny the existance of any issues with products, when said issues are common knowledge. If the man is as informed / close to the manufacturers as he claims / appears (which I don't doubt) he must be aware of such issues and his associated total lack of objectivity is both misleading and insulting to his readership, while also being potentially embarrassing for him.

    While I don't doubt the positive influence of the magazines in towing the line for safe, responsible and legal shooting, I think our man's attitude of sheltering under-achieving manufacturers (plus his alleged role in the murky origins of anti-tamper) will ultimately only serve to damage the industry and its relations with its customer base :rolleyes:
     
  8. That hurts

    That hurts Barely Active

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    Unless I missed it in the 'other' thread, no one asked this question ... Even if you preferred to buy and support 'British' made products, would you really buy said product in the full knowledge that there are likely problems with the design and/or QC, rather than buy a competitor product which works straight out the box ?

    No one would go out and buy a new car accepting the fact that it would spend the first six months of its life in and out of the garage sorting the known problems out ... that's why the second hand market is good !
     
  9. secretagentmole

    secretagentmole Low down, dirty and quiet...

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    Unless you buy a Rapid!

    :p
     
  10. TORNADOS7

    TORNADOS7 Top Poster

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    I've owned one BSA over the years that was a Birmingham built Lightning, accurate as hell but fell to bits after a couple of seasons of work!

    Got an original Webley Xocet that hasn't missed a beat since the day I got it, still kicking out 11.4 after 10+ years!

    I won't be rushing out to buy another BSA any time soon!!!
     
  11. career707lover

    career707lover Busy Member

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    I agree with this as well. It's not so bad now with the internet where it is much easier to access reliable information in terms of rifle reviews. You can read the reviews and thoughts of people who have actually parted with their hard earned money to get the rifle or pistol and read about what they honestly think of it. The thoughts of someone with no vested interest if you like.

    In those magazines I dont remember ever reading a single negative review, when I say negative I dont necessarily mean a review or article slating the item but I mean an honest assessment of what you would be getting if you bought it. When I was a youngster I bought a few rifles and pistols based on what these magazines had said about them, only to be extremely disappointed when i got them. I almost felt as though I had been lied to. Lied might be a bit extreme but false representation would not be. Guess who hasnt bought an airgun magazine in donkeys years? I often wondered if anyone else felt that way.

    He's probably a decent enough bloke but the holier than thou way he comes across really gets on my tits and he will say things like "If you dont know enough to judge then dont judge" and then proceed to judge something or someone.

    I will be interested in what, if anything, happens with BSA.....Oh......and who the chuff is this Jim that they were talking about?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2014
  12. mrtho

    mrtho Busy Member

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    IMO the American online reviewers do the best job and maintain an impartiality that I don't find in the UK comics!Typically I will avoid revues by the person in question as I feel he is all about hype more than substance!
     
  13. Titchgamer

    Titchgamer Honorary Member

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    I am sadened by the whole BSA/Webley history in recent years.
    I wouldnt say I was patriotic or anything but in years gone by they would of been at the top of my choice lists along with HW and the fact they were British was a bonus.
    Now I would not consider a new one as there is just so much more better gear at better prices on the market.
    Same old story everywhere though sadly, To much cost cutting has resulted in bad performance.

    As for certain mag's and reviews well we all know how they work LOL
     
  14. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Absolutely.. I think the growth of the internet and the free flow of "un-massaged" information it provides is really giving a kicking to companies (such as BSA) who rely on hype and dubious sales practices to shift shonky goods.

    I remember there was, many years ago, one bad review of a rifle in AGW or AG (can't remember which). IIRC it featured the Browning Airstar - which got a right slagging - presumably the importer was knocking off the editor's Mrs (or had gravely offended the magazine in some other manner) to bring about the publication of such a terrible review (to be fair though, the gun wasn't much cop).

    Similarly to yourself I wasted a considerable sum of money in my youth on crap bought solely on the basis of positive mag reviews. Ultimately I learned my lesson, but not until I'd p****d away a good few hundred quid on over-hyped rubbish :rolleyes:

    I agree about the holier-than-thou attitude of our beloved media man - I think what really boils my p**s is the condescending, almost mocking tone often used to dress someone down who dares to flag up a problem or criticise a manufacturer; when in all likelihood the man publicly being made to feel 2" tall may well have a salient and valid point.

    I too will be interested to see how BSA fare - sadly I think I know, though. What the company needs IMO is investment to improve their product quality - better / more reliable design, higher standard of manufacture, better QC. This would eventually drag their name out of the mud, reduce money wasted on warranty claims and benefit both the company (through better profitability) and the customer (through better products).

    What I actually think will happen is that nothing will be changed, product quality will continue to fall as the investment w*nkers slash costs further while leeching out every last penny of profit until the company is on its knees. At that point the workforce and Birmingham premises will be let go and the PCP tooling will be sold or shipped to Spain (or China, India - anywhere labour is cheap) to continue producing PCPs badged as BSA or Gamo. The BSA "DNA" in the new Gamo Coyote is plain to see - I'd be very interested to know where it's made - potentially very bad news for Brit-based BSA if Gamo have started producing similar products in Spain..

    Finally, "Jim" (I suspect) is Jim Tyler who writes a lot of techy stuff for AGW. I've corresponded with him on numerous occasions and he's a thoroughly nice, knowledgeable and helpful chap. I suspect he appreciates his position of being largely able to sidestep all the politics of the industry associated with product reviews..


    Aye, tbh I tend to avoid any reviews by anyone who claims / appears to have any standing within the industry, as they'll always have some degree of obligation towards manufacturers / importers / distributors who've supplied the product being reviews. The more "professional" the reviewer, the more chance of a biased review IMO. As with many other aspects of the sport, often the best service comes from knowledgeable individuals at grassroots level :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2014
  15. Egg

    Egg Major Poster

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    That certainly seemed to be the prevailing sentiment in the posts he's made on that thread - I am now absolutely convinced that is is possible to smirk through the use of words.
     
  16. NorfolkDave

    NorfolkDave Donator

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    I thought it was only me, I've taken out the mags 5 issues for £5 deal, can't really go wrong for a fiver. In the latest issue he's not only replied to a readers letter, but virtually dedicated his editorial to dressing a bloke down for questioning the decision to include airsoft articles. He's related this to snobbery in shooting. What the fudge has this got to do with snobbery, it's not an airsoft magazine, it's an airgun magazine. I said that last bit in my mind very slowly. I have a mere passing interest in airsoft, nothing more, but I'm never going to read anything about it. This is nothing to do with snobbery, it just isn't my thing, if it's yours, great. I'm the same with tatoos, fake tan and silicon. It strikes me they are running out of things to write about, nothing more, but looking for a preechy kind of way to defend themselves.

    Back to work.

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2014
  17. Egg

    Egg Major Poster

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    Sounds more like the scenario when Starlord joined up with 200AD because it wasn't getting the readership to justify its existence but maybe that's just me getting it wrong?
     
  18. timmytree

    timmytree Pro Poster

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    Don't just talk about it on here, get over there and put your oar in.
    How come all the mags reviewers get perfect guns?
     
  19. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

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    Is that rhetorical or do you actually want an answer? :rolleyes:

    loving your responses to Terry though,nice job Tim ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2014
  20. Egg

    Egg Major Poster

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    TBH I reckon if I started telling Terry Doe that I felt his replies had the hallmarks of a written smirk I'd be hoofed. That said I'll also be careful what I say here because a comment I once made here got me banned there, however that was back in the days when a certain person was moderator and .-all-fecking-mighty rolled into one overbearing, bullying, loud-mouthed, arrogant entity.

    Better to be safe than sorry is my policy ;)
     
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