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Advice Looking To Purchase My First Pcp Rifle. Advice?

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by Bradley Worthington, Apr 18, 2020.

  1. Bradley Worthington

    Bradley Worthington Well-Known Member

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    I've looked at several rifles for a couple of months. I'm swaying towards the Air Arms S400 Full Length Classic.

    I'm not sure what calibre to get. I enjoy the .22 calibre pellet for their knockdown force.

    What I want out of a PCP:
    Accurate up to 50 yards, indoor, bench rested.
    As close to 12 ft-lb as possible.
    Loud firing noise (I know people prefer silence, but I don't).

    Would the S400 be a good choice? My budget is £600 and I plan to purchase from Red beck shooting supplies.

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
    TORNADOS7 likes this.
  2. Red64

    Red64 Engaging Member

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    A good choice with air arms s400 it is a very accurate rifle , I shoot with .177 pellets i have no problems knocking down targets and it will be up to you which calibre you want to pick very good gun air arms

    .
     
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  3. Stevie Darling

    Stevie Darling Sexual tyrannosaurus

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    The s400 series is an excellent choice. If it’s for mostly targets then .177 would be the better option.

    If you’re not fussed for silencing, I would add an air stripper to finish off the end of the barrel.

    The rifle at 4:20 sounds a bit more powerful than a sub12 air rifle, but the s400 will certainly have a healthy muzzle crack.
     
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  4. jesim1

    jesim1 Kit bitch to the Stars

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    Most PCPs will be accurate out to that range fine, but you will have to do some pellet testing to get the ones which will do it, and I'd also go .177 for targets - there is a reason this is the main calibre for 90% of all air gun target shooting.

    As for as close to 12fpe as possible, this is a mistake. Most guns will ship at over 11fpe, chasing beyond that may get you on the wrong side of the law as power can be a full 1fpe different with heavier pellets in a PCP, typically JSB Heavies give the highest power - but not always, and it does vary for gun to gun. The difference between 11.9fpe and 11.5fpe in negligible in the scheme of things and that difference in power will not carry out to that range, so go for accuracy close to or a little over 11fpe for balance ;)

    As for noise, it's a strange request, but to judge you would have to go to a range and ask people to remove the moderators to give you a real idea, but most PCP are not especially noisy, although many Steyrs are, but they are out of your price range, so I'd forget this as it's totally unimportant and will be driven by your budget anyway, so just take what you get :rolleyes:
     
  5. Bradley Worthington

    Bradley Worthington Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the reply.

    How much power does the S400 produce in .177 and .22? Gun Mart TV suggested 11 ft-lb in .177. I'd prefer at least 11.5.

    Thank you for the reply.

    I'd prefer at least 11.5 ft-lb. 11 ft-lb and below just seems underpowered to me personally. As stated above, Gun Mart TV suggested 11 ft-lb in .177 for the S400. I assume if they used a heavier .177 pellet, the rifle would've produced higher power?

    Thank you for the reply.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
  6. Stevie Darling

    Stevie Darling Sexual tyrannosaurus

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    In the sub12 game accuracy is everything!

    The difference between 11-11.5 is about 20fps, which probably make sod all difference at the target end. A heavier may give higher power, but you will reduce the speed of the pellet. The most efficient pellet will produce the most power.

    11fpe is “plenty” for a sub12 air rifle in both calibers.

    Personally, I would go for velocity over power. Most of the answers on this thread will be very similar to what’s been posted above with regards to power.

    11fpe is certainly not underpowered!

    You sound pretty new to this if you don’t mind me saying so:)
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
  7. Bradley Worthington

    Bradley Worthington Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the reply.

    May I ask, what do you mean exactly by the most efficient pellet will produce the most power?

    I don't mind you saying that at all. I've only been an Air Rifle owner for 4 years which isn't that long in the scheme of things.

    I own a Remington ThunderCeptor .22 Rifle. Wasn't a great shooter at first. I dismantled it recently. Lockdown boredom. Anyway, I cleaned it up, deburred it and sanded the piston down.

    Shoots great now. 5p groups at 20 yards. Before, I couldn't hit a barn door with it.

    I'm new to PCP though as you can tell. Still learning indeed.

    It would be interesting to see if any members of the forum have chrono'd their S400's with various pellet weights to see what the difference is in general.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
  8. sagalout

    sagalout What a plinker!

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    No you may not, what do you think this is a forum where people share information :mao: Joking, of course you can Malcolm.

    Every gun will produce the most power with a particular pellet for a particular state of tune. A very simple example is both of my guns are setup for JSB Heavy 10.34 grain at 11.5fpe, all other pellets make less power with both heavier and lighter pellets. Both guns dislike Bisley Magnum 10.6 grain, I assume they are tight in the barrel.

    When someone states the gun makes 11fpe, what pellet is that with, fpe will vary with other pellets. Off the top of me head my Uragan makes 11.5 Heavy 10.34 grain, 11.4 Monster 13.43 grain, 11.3 Exact 8.44 grain, 10.6 Bisley Magnums 10.6 grain and 10.5 Econ II 7.4 grain.

    For a given state of tune buy tester packs of pellets and find the on that is most accurate in your gun, after all is said done, if you can't hit the target the energy is totally irrelevant. Make sure the gun is legal with all pellets!

    A gun can be tuned to change the weight of the pellet that makes the power.

    Mr Lane discusses pellet choice in this video.


    PS This long and boring reply was bought to you courtesy of PPS (Pain Prevents Sleep :bored:)
     
  9. gtfreight

    gtfreight Engaging Member

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    As others have said the AA S400 would be a good choice. With the barrel being unshrouded it will produce quite a crack at the muzzle without a silencer. If you're using it for bench rest shooting you may soon decide that you will want to quieten it especially if you're not shooting alone.
    If you're shooting out to 50yds you are going to get less pellet drop in .177 than .22 and higher velocities at the same power (as a rough guide at 11ft/lb a .177 will have about 200fps more muzzle velocity than a .22 making a flatter trajectory over 50yds and the knockdown targets will still go over at that range).
    With the right pellet the gun should be easily capable of hitting a penny at 50yds but you have to play your part with your shooting skills.
    Believe me and others when we say that you'll not be able to tell the difference between 10.75 and 11.5ft/lbs.
    And by the way Redbeck's are excellent people to deal with and they have their own range to test your purchase on. I bought my .177 Redwolf from them and when they tested it with JSB Exacts it chronoed at 11.6ft/lbs and they refused to let it leave the shop as they considered it to be too close to the limit and could be overpowered with other pellets. They swapped it for another which is at 11.2 which is plenty powerful enough for me.
     
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  10. gtfreight

    gtfreight Engaging Member

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    I have been shooting for over 40 years and I'm still learning now.
    Can I tell you a short story?
    I think it was the winter of 78, a time when nobody bothered if you walked around the woods with an air gun. About 6 of us used to go shooting near a local lodge which had frozen over. We had Airsporters, Mercurys, HW35s (most of us tried to up the power in those days, whether it worked or not I'll never know) and one lad had a bog standard Meteor with a 4x20 scope on it.
    One of us threw an empty pellet tin out on to the frozen water and we all took turns in shooting at it until it was out of range. The lad with the Meteor was the one who was still hitting the tin when all of us with more powerful rifles couldn't. When I say more powerful I bet there wasn't that much in it really but we thought that if the gun had more noise it was more powerful and that Meteor just wasn't as loud as ours but it certainly made me think.
     
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  11. Gat Man

    Gat Man Busy Member

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    I have an S5** which is 99% identical to the S4** series of guns

    Mine is .177

    Over the chrono power varies very little over the course of 60 shots from a fill


    Using JSB Exacts (8.44 grain) mine produces 11.0 - 11.3ft/lb depending on where it is in the power curve
    (level of fill pressure)

    The 0.3 ft/lb variation over 6 mags seems to make absolutely zero difference to how hard it hits the spinners at the local range, right out to 70 yards and I doubt a whole ft/lb either way would be noticeable by anyone, or anything!
    (other than a chronograph)

    I would say definitely go for the S400
    (or better still the S410)but don't worry about half a ft/lb here or there either way - unless that half a ft/lb is taking you dangerously close to or over the legal limit then I wouldn't worry about it

    10.5ft/lb and above is fine and if your gun is at 10.5 or 11 rather than 11.99 not only do you have peace of mind but also you get a few more shots per fill :)


    After using the Remington gas ram gun you will be amazed just how a accurate you can be with a quality PCP!!!!!!!
     
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  12. psychosomatic gardener

    psychosomatic gardener Busy Member

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    Ive got aa400 year 2005 my first .177 when i took it to our old club rarc we used the chrono on it bisleys were 10.9 blah blah jsbs 11.3 but the aa diablo fields 8.4 grn were 11.1-11.2...
    but thanks to guloluseus and sillygary i was hitting sugar cubes at 45 yards and the bell at 87 yards good rifle i use for hft or did...
     
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  13. Bradley Worthington

    Bradley Worthington Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the reply everyone. I have learnt a lot. I am definity sold on the idea of purchasing the S400.

    Should the rifle come with the required charging fittings?
     
  14. Dr B

    Dr B Grizzly Airgunner

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    S410s are all I hunt with these days - I have two. They will do what you want straight out of the box. If you can, stretch to some nice woodwork - walnut is lighter and i reckon they handle better. Work out your 'sweetspot' probably from around 170 - 100bar. Dont fill to 190bar as the manufacturer states. Get the seller to put it over the chrony at around 150-bar - to make sure its legal and if they put a few shots through it they can tell you the shot-to-shot variation. This should be low.

    In .22 flavour, they really like AADFs. One final thing is at some future point get the anti-tamper removed. Lots of fellas on here will help you with that, and its a good time for a fettle as well. They dont 'need' a fettle but like all guns, will benefit from one.

    atb with it :thumb:
     
  15. mikeyhall1

    mikeyhall1 Amazing Poster

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    S400 is a epic gun.

    But be warned.. You may like loud, but I bet a million quid those shooting around you don’t....
     
  16. Bradley Worthington

    Bradley Worthington Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the information.

    What sort of fettling can be done then?

    I'll probably purchase a moderator so I have the option to reduce the sound if required.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
  17. Kev The Fish

    Kev The Fish Buxted Rifle Club Member

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    Hello Bradley
    Listen to the advice above it will help set you on the right path
    The S4 series are fantastic rifles
    I personally use an S400 Classic Superlite for competitive Benchrest and in honesty it's only me that sometimes let's the rifle down.
    I would go for .177 if mainly target use is your thing (perfectly good for hunting too)
    My own rifle is only running around 10.4-10.6 and is laser accurate so don't get hung up on power, would I up mine? Absolutely not, some target/benchrest shooters even de-tune their rifles to sometimes give more stability to match their preferred pellet of choice.
    I find mine is excellent with AADF's, JSB 8.44 & QYS domed in fact it is not too fussy with many half decent pellets like Crosman premier, H&N FTT & even BSA Elites are OK for knockdown practice.
    Go for one and just enjoy it, get a cheap £30 *bay stirrup pump and some JSB Diabolo in 4.52 and just spend a little time to get used to it, you will love what fun these can be.
    Kev


    Sent from my T3 Pro using Tapatalk
     
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  18. TORNADOS7

    TORNADOS7 Top Poster

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  19. Bradley Worthington

    Bradley Worthington Well-Known Member

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    Hello!
    Thanks for the reply.
    I have taken note of the advice above.

    I find your FPE interesting. Why is your rifle a fair bit below the S400's average power rating?

    I'm very excited by the prospects of owning such a highly accurate rifle. I wasn't aware you could get pumps so cheap on "the bay". Noted, that should save me a lot of money, thank you.




    I must say, that is a very beautiful stock. Is that the superlite traditional brown?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  20. Kev The Fish

    Kev The Fish Buxted Rifle Club Member

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    I am not worried by my rifle being around 10.5 when they are straight & true and 25m accuracy is asked of it and she delivers then that is the main thing
    Just because we have a 12ftlb limit it - it is a limit not a target to aim for.
    Anywhere from around 9½ up providing the accuracy is there is just fine with me. Please don't fall into the trap of chasing power
    There are several at our club also using S400's and yet they all say how much more precise mine seems. It just seems to be better balanced and in tune with what it's fed
    So just get one and leave well alone as 99% of the time these just plain deliver
    Maybe as you go along there can be minor things you can do to "bling it up" such as rowan trigger blade, trigger guard, barrel band etc. But first and foremost these are just solid, well built, accurate rifles that have stood the test of time and still sell extremely well for a good reason
    Take care
    Kev

    Sent from my T3 Pro using Tapatalk
     

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