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kyska, toytown, anyone? bit of info please!

Discussion in 'Firearms Certificate (FAC) Guns' started by brett1985, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. brett1985

    brett1985 Posting Addict

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    hey up guys,

    im just about to put in for a variation as i currently only have .22 air on my fac.

    im looking at doing a 1 for 1 variation for .22 air to .22 rimfire, but is it worth asking for a second variation for a hmr?

    ive currently got about 250 acres to shoot and although i know a rimmi will be ok out to about 75 yards, is it worth having a hmr for longer shots?

    any help would be hugely appreciated chaps.

    oh, and while im on the subject, when applying for the variations, am i correct in thinking i need to fill out the parts of the application forms that are relevant to wanting to change my calibre and not having to fill out all of the other bits again?

    thanks in advance for your help!

    brett:up::up:

    p.s. kyska and toytown, you were right..... i def should have put in for rimfire when i first applied....lol
     
  2. Kyska

    Kyska Honorary Member

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    Hey Brett,

    Yes! Put in for hmr, if you're asked, just say what you've said on here, you need extra legs that the lr can't give you. Don't forget to put in for a mod.

    Thinking about it, lets save you some cash, it'll cost you, no matter what (as you are planning more than a 141), so keep the S1 air on, and apply for variation to hold .22lr, .17hmr and x2 rimfire mods, don't bother with 1 for 1, you're losing a slot as such.

    Re the forms, fill the whole form out but not the referee bit and don't send pictures.:up:

     
  3. brett1985

    brett1985 Posting Addict

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    blinding mate, thanks very much.

    one more quick question, if im applying for a variation for hmr AND rimfire with mods, is the variation charged per gun i want, or will the £26 fee cover both rifles with mods?

    im a little confused...
     
  4. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

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    Kyska's exactly right (as he usually is!). The variation is a flat rate - one payment will cover any additions you want to make.
     
  5. adymorris

    adymorris Keyboard Hero

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    ^^what he said^^

    £26 for one or five variations if applied for at the same time
     
  6. Stratts

    Stratts Posting Addict

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    As above mate but I'll chuck summit in for you to think about and that's a .22WMR instead of a hummer! Almost as flat shooting, packs more of a punch, slightly less wind affected, slightly cheaper rifles out there and all your cals the same size for cleaning stuff which will also save you a bit.

    Food for thought bud!
     
  7. hun73r666

    hun73r666 Keyboard Hero

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    Dont forget to sign the page under where you fill in details of your doctor! (Like I did!!)
     
  8. ths

    ths Busy Member

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    Couldn't agree more which is why I have the 22 WMR not the 17! My FEO said try it and I'm very happy he did. the 30gr V-Max from Hornady is very high quality ammo and shoots thumbnails at 100 yards.
     
  9. Stratts

    Stratts Posting Addict

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    My CZ 452 prefers Rem 33gr bud but same results. Tried the hornadys and didn't like em as much. Picked mine up mint with mod for £150 2nd hand, far less than any hmr you'll find in the same condition!!
     
  10. toytown

    toytown Honorary Member

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    as above mate. it might be worth putting down for fox too in regards to the .17hmr, you may not feel you need it yourself but its handy to have if you need it in the future.
     
  11. hun73r666

    hun73r666 Keyboard Hero

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    I didnt put fox on my .17hmr application. I simply put vermin as I feel that covers all bases. However, when I got it back the plod had put vermin and fox on my ticket. Personally I dont think it is the police's place to re-classify foxes as not being vermin!

     
  12. toytown

    toytown Honorary Member

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    hmmm true but always better to put it on your app just in case, your west mercia like me but other forces may not be as good as ours :D
     
  13. Kyska

    Kyska Honorary Member

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    Its a bone of contention this is, I have a condition that I can't shoot fox with a rimfire, I was told that at interview, so had to buy a centrefire. Horses for Forces.

    There is no mistake on my FAC that fox aren't classed as vermin, mine states vermin and fox, I could argue, but is it worth it in the long run?

    Devils advocate says, that if you are on purpose, selectively looking for charlie, don't take a rimfire, on the few occasion I have need to shoot fox, I take a CF, if one came across me whilst bunnying with the wmr, I'd shoot it at a reasonable range...if my fac allowed me of course, which it doesn't.....so I just pretend to shoot it.......
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
  14. toytown

    toytown Honorary Member

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    Its all in the wording. For my .243 it could say for deer and fox, so i can go stalking for deer in the day then put the lamp on and go foxing in the night. i will prob get in the persute of deer as i have a .17hmr already.

    If it says for deer and fox in the persute of deer, it means if i am sat in a high chair for example waiting for deer and a fox trots up the track i can shoot it until night (night starts an hour after last light as far as the law is concerned) but as soon as i put a lamp on my rifle to shoot fox i am breaking the conditions of my licence.

    It is fine to go after fox with a .17hmr as long ss your licence permits. mine says .17hmr for varmint and fox. If it just says varmint you cant shoot fox, it is all down to calibre on my .22lr it only says varmint and i cant shoot fox with it as its not classed as a fox calibre (.17hmr, .222, .223, .223 wssm, .204 ruger, .220 swift, 6mm ppc, 6x47 swiss match, .22 hornet, and above)

    Not all FEOs are happy to change things in the interview, if you get one in a bad mood ic your app isnt right or you want to change it your stuffed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
  15. hun73r666

    hun73r666 Keyboard Hero

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    This is the statement which basc made last year regarding taking fox with .22lr.

    "there is no legislative obstacle to using any firearm for fox control, unless prohibited by a condition on your firearm certificate. foxes fall within the definition of "vermin" and no court has said otherwise. if "vermin" are featured in the certificate condition it is lawful to cull them with a rifle. however using an air rifle or a calibre which waslikely to wound a fox rather than acheive a clean kill could lay you open to prosecution under animal welfare legislation. for best practice advice about the use of rimfire rifles please contact basc's firearm department."

    That says to me that if your calibre says vermin and is capable of a clean dispatch of fox (at the right range obviously) then it is lawfull to take them regardless of whether the condition mentions fox. I think where you might have a problem is if your condition state you cannot take fox with that calibre. Non of the license I have seen state you "cannot" take fox with rimfire. I think many people read their condition and think that because fox is mentioned under CF or .17hmr but not under .22lr then it is not lawfull to take them with .22lr. However, the condition does not say that. It says that you may take vermin of which fox falls under and no court has ever stated otherwise. If it did then I think there would need to be a new dictionary definition for the word "vermin".

    I think that the reason Fox has started to be listed as well as the word vermin on certificates is to cover the old bills arse! If they told you you can take fox with .22lr and you were to wound one out at 120m then you could point the finger at the police and say that they said it was ok! Something the police do not want on their desk.

    By specifying Fox seperatly only under larger calibres then they are covering their arse. I think it is as simple as that.
     
  16. toytown

    toytown Honorary Member

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    i agree with you there is no written law that says you cant shoot a fox with a .22 rimfire. and fox do fall into the category of varmint, i know people that shoot fox with .22 FAC air. what the fire arms and explosive licensing dep are worried about is that a .22 rimfire dosnt have the power to guarantee a kill within the limits of its range. there power and penetration of a .22 against a .17 is allot less so on paper it would be seen as not suitable and an injured fox will do more damage as a pest than a fully fit fox. i have seen woodies fly of after being hit square with a .22lr at closer ranges than ive hit and killed rabbit and there is allot less to a woodie than there is to a fox. tbh hit anything in the right place at the right range and it will kill it.

    it is purely to cover their own backs which is why you need to apply for fox as well as varmint. if you shot a fox with a .22 rimi and you where caught you can argue what the info hun73r has and most likely win the case but you would most likely be done by the FAELD for breaking the conditions of your license. the FAELD dosnt say what you can shoot that is up to the BASC and local wildlife and game authorities, it says what you are aloud to soot in the condition of your license.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
  17. hun73r666

    hun73r666 Keyboard Hero

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    I agree mate that if you have the gun for fox then you may as well get it added to the license. I didnt ask for it though as my point would be that fox are vermin and that is what I asked for. Same goes with the .22lr. If fox wasnt mentioned on my license then I dont think the police could argue that I was breaking terms by using .22lr or .17hmr for fox. At the end of the day there are still a few departments that will issue .22lr for fox and if basc are making a statement such as they did then I would assume they would fight it all the way if it did ever go to court.
     
  18. Bertyb86

    Bertyb86 Engaging Member

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    What about shooting fox with a shotgun?:popkorn::popkorn::popkorn:
     
  19. hun73r666

    hun73r666 Keyboard Hero

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    Lol. Fill your boots mate! There are no conditions for use of 12ga!

     
  20. toytown

    toytown Honorary Member

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    As long as you are using fox slugs :-D
     

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