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Advice Knives and the law..

Discussion in 'General chit chat' started by Nige4927, Oct 10, 2013.

  1. Nige4927

    Nige4927 Busy Member

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    I just read a threat on the hunting section about knives and is it legal to carry them so I thought I would clarify the law for everyone then you don't accidentally get yourself in bother..

    First of all some knives are legal full stop.. You can carry them when ever you want, however it's very restricted.. The knife must have a blade of 3" (75mm) or less and not have a fixed or lockable blade. This covers things like the blade on a Swiss Army knife or these multi tools you can get.. But be careful some of them do lock so would not be legal for general carrying..

    All other knives and blades are illegal unless you have a lawful or reasonable excuse to have it in your possession.. This includes knives with a blade less than 3" that lock..

    So for example a chef who is on his way to work and has a set of chef knives on him is OK because he has a lawful and reasonable excuse to have them. However if said chef was on his day off and was shopping in town and had his knives with him, this would be illegal.. Merely forgetting you had the knife on you is not good enough.. It could be used as a defence in court but you run the risk of prosecution if the magistrate is not satisfied..

    So let's look at hunting.. There are some pretty brutal looking knives on the market for hunting, some with blades as long as 9" and razor sharp.. But let's take the example of a typical hunting knife like the ones below.

    [​IMG]

    some of these have a fixed blade or a folding blade that locks and all are over 3" blade length and so are illegal in a public place without a lawful or reasonable excuse..
    But just like our chef friend if you had one of these knives and were on route to a hunting session or returning from one or indeed at a permission, then you have a valid lawful and reasonable excuse to have it in your possession and are fine..
    But be warned!! If you say carry your knife in a belt pouch or in a pocket and you were to then go out after your hunting trip with the knife still in your possession, then you ARE committing an offence and if found you will be arrested..

    Some knives will never be legal and you will not have a lawful or reasonable excuse to carry them.. These are known as prohibited weapons.. They include any knife that has been made to look like something innocent or is concealed.. Examples are walking sticks with a blade in the handle, or belt buckles that have a concealed knife in them..

    Other prohibited blades include the example below.. This one is restricted because it includes a knuckle duster on the handle.. It's the knuckle duster that is a prohibited weapon in this case making the whole knife illegal..

    [​IMG]

    I hope this helps to clarify the law on knifes and when you can legally have them in your possession.

    Nige
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  2. DR2501

    DR2501 Donator

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    Great post mate, thanks. Knives are tools to most sensible people at the end of the day and we shouldn't let a small stupid minority ruin it for the rest of us if we stay within the law
     
  3. Nige4927

    Nige4927 Busy Member

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    I can tell you now, police are more concerned about knives than they will ever be about airguns.. And trust me on this.. Every cop knows his knife law like the back of his hand.. So stay safe and stay legal..

    If in doubt apply the simple rules.. Does it have a blade longer than 3" which is fixed or lockable.. If yes to either then it's illegal to carry it without a lawful or reasonable excuse..

    Example I get asked a lot.. What about a Stanley knife? Well apply the simple rule! Does it have a blade longer than 3" no.. Does it lock yes therefore it's illegal without lawful or reasonable excuse.. If it's in a tool box in your car then it clearly part of a tool kit and is fine.. But in your pocket at a football match.. Well you do the maths

    Nige
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  4. Elk hunter

    Elk hunter Keyboard Hero

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    Nige
    ive read your post and would like to ask a question.
    There are lots of knives to be bought over the Internet of all shapes sizes ect, are there any that are illegal to own full stop. Not even for your own viewing pleasure at home.
    Just a matter of interest that is all.
    Thanks Abdrew
     
  5. Nige4927

    Nige4927 Busy Member

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    Yes prohibited weapons are illegal in public or private.. Like I said these include walking sticks with a sword or knife concealed in the handle, knifes that are disguised as something else like a belt buckle or mobile phone, (yes such things exist) butterfly knives are on he list as well as are flick knives.. I will try and get the full list for you.

    Nige
     
  6. sharpsman

    sharpsman Keyboard Hero

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    The Heinni Haynes site has a legal carry section for anyone is who is unsure about what is legal and what is not.
     
  7. eagle1980

    eagle1980 Engaging Member

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    I believe all spring loaded "flick" knives are flat out illegal esp if they are operated via a button to flick the blade out.
     
  8. lone wolf

    lone wolf Pro Poster

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    Very good post nige and thanks for doing it!

    Its always good to know the legalitys of such things.

    The fact people carry knives to play the hard man and to inflict death or injury to others sickens me!

    What happend to two men slugging it out to resolve a issue,followed by a pint.

    As having a use for knives made for purpose like us hunters or fishermen,how do these other knives and blades such as movie/fantasy edged weapons fit in with the law?

    Are you allowd to own them for collecting purposes only to be kept in doors or are the not allowed?

    Gaz
     
  9. shr1mp

    shr1mp Donator

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    Strictly speaking s139 states that said knife should have a cutting edge of 3" (75mm) or less, although personally i try to keep my edc's blades (as a whole) within the stated length as i really don't fancy being the test case that defines cutting edge.
     
  10. render87

    render87 Busy Member

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    And also remember guys even if your knife is totally legal carry it legally. It must be in a closed bag not your pocket/belt or around your neck. And whilst in your car must be in the boot of the car not in the cabin or glove box. I used to fit carpets and was once told my stanley knife had to be in the boot with my work bag zipped up
     
  11. shr1mp

    shr1mp Donator

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    As far as i'm aware if its s139 exempt, your ok to belt or pocket carry.

    Edited to put:

    Just to confuse things a bit, public or private transport/buildings/institutions may well have a zero tolerance policy towards legal edc carry.
    If in doubt.......... don't!
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  12. Nige4927

    Nige4927 Busy Member

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    To clarify some points that have been raised..

    there is nothing in the legislation that says you must carry the knife in a closed bag or the boot of your car etc.. However it is easier to explain the reason for it being there, for example carrying a tire iron under the drivers seat could and has been construed as being in possession of an offensive weapon, had that tire iron been in the boot with the rest of the spare wheel equipment then it would have been ok.. While out hunting it is ok to have the knife in your pocket or on your belt etc..

    Prohibited weapons i.e. Those that are illegal under any circumstances are specific to a list of weapons contained within law.. It these weapons alone that you cannot posses. So for example the Klingon Batlif sword is perfectly legal to have as a collection item at home.. Transporting from shop to home is also ok.. Same applies to Samurai swords etc..

    I will get the full list of prohibited weapons and post on here for you as soon as I get the chance..

    as as for some institutions banning knives etc on their premises, this is not law.. It could be a bye law but it is certainly not criminal law.. If say a particular bus company banned the carrying of air guns on its services, it is entitled to do so as a condition of travel.. But should you break that ban, all they can do is refuse travel or as you to leave the bus if challenged.. Because you broke their rule not the law..
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  13. wolfy68

    wolfy68 Busy Member

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    Good thread and very valuable information,thanks Nige :)
     
  14. shr1mp

    shr1mp Donator

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    How about schools, hospitals, british rail, sporting events?
    I suspect you may receive more than just a refusal of entry.........confiscation if your lucky.
     
  15. Nige4927

    Nige4927 Busy Member

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    not if you have a lawful or reasonable excuse for having it.. School cook, engineer working on the railway etc
     
  16. shr1mp

    shr1mp Donator

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    I'm refering to an edc'able knife, s139 exempt, where you don't need to have to supply a reason for carrying.
     
  17. Nige4927

    Nige4927 Busy Member

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    Ok here is the complete list of prohibited weapons.. To clarify you cannot have these in your possession except under certain conditions set out at the end..

    The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Orders 1988, 2002 and 2004 prohibit the possession and importation of:
    • a knuckleduster: a band of metal or other hard material worn on one or more fingers, and designed to cause injury and any weapon incorporating a knuckleduster;
    • a swordstick: a hollow walking stick or cane containing a blade which may be used as a sword;
    • the weapon sometimes known as a “handclaw”, being a band of metal or other hard material from which a number of sharp spikes protrude, worn around the hand;
    • the weapon sometimes known as a “belt buckle knife”, being a buckle which incorporates or conceals a knife;
    • the weapon sometimes known as a “push dagger”, being a knife with a handle that fits within a clenched fist and a blade that protrudes between two fingers;
    • the weapon sometimes known as a “hollow Kubota”, being a cylindrical container holding a number of sharp spikes;
    • the weapon sometimes known as a “foot claw”, being a bar of metal or other hard material from which a number of sharp spikes protrude, worn strapped to the foot;
    • the weapon sometimes known as a “shuriken”, “shaken” or “death star”, being a hard non-flexible plate having three or more sharp radiating points, designed to be thrown;
    • the weapon sometimes known as a “balisong” or “butterfly knife”, being a blade enclosed by a handle which is designed to split down the middle, without the operation of a spring or other mechanical means, to reveal the blade;
    • the weapon sometimes known as a “telescopic truncheon”, being a truncheon designed to extend automatically or by hand pressure applied to a button spring or other device attached to its handle;
    • the weapon sometimes known as a “blowpipe” or “blow gun”, being a hollow tube through which darts or hard pellets are propelled by the use of breath;
    • the weapon sometimes known as a “kusari gama”, being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a sickle;
    • the weapon sometimes known as a “kyoketsu shoge”, being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a hooked knife;
    • the weapon sometimes known as a “manrikigusari” or “kusari”, being a length of rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at each end to a hard weight or hand grip;
    • a disguised knife, that is any knife which has a concealed blade or concealed sharp point and is designed to appear to be an everyday object of a kind commonly carried on the person or in a handbag, briefcase, or other hand luggage (such as a comb, brush, writing instrument, cigarette lighter, key, lipstick or telephone);
    • a stealth knife, that is a knife or spike, which has a blade, or sharp point, made from a material that is not readily detectable by apparatus used for detecting metal and which is not designed for domestic use or for use in the processing, preparation or consumption of food or as a toy;
    • a straight, side-handled or friction-lock truncheon (sometimes known as a baton);
    • a sword with a curved blade of 50cms or over in length; the length of the blade shall be the straight line distance from the top of the handle to the tip of the blade.




    Defences for all weapons set out in The Criminal Justice Act 1988 as amended are:
    • for the purposes only of functions carried out on behalf of
    • the Crown
    • a visiting force
    • for the purposes only of making it available to a museum or gallery which does not distribute profits
    • the purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances;
    • the production of films (within the meaning of Part 1 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 – see section 5B of that Act);
    • the production of television programmes (within the meaning of the Communications Act 2003 – see section 405(1) of that Act);
     
  18. Kyska

    Kyska Honorary Member

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    Nige,

    I'm sure for the simplicity you're correct, but its actually illegal to sell, import, export, lend or hire these. If you've owned one since the 1988 OffWep order you can own one at home, but can do none of the latter.

    And, because you're a busy bloke, the list you have been meaning to post is here.

    Edit, you're obviously not busy today! I found the list for you too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  19. Nige4927

    Nige4927 Busy Member

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    Again your not committing an offence.. If a school has a policy of no pen knives then it will be confiscated.. You might get expelled as well who knows but you have not broken the law only their own rules..
     
  20. simonplatt

    simonplatt Donator

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    it is not illegal to OWN a flick knife. it is illegal to to sell, import, export, lend or hire one, borrow accept or give as a gift.
     

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