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Introduction to high pressure hand pumps.

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by Andy, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. Andy

    Andy Administrative Staff Member Founder

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    [video=youtube_share;g0Xoy7gJoD8]http://youtu.be/g0Xoy7gJoD8[/video]
     
  2. StayingProne

    StayingProne Posting Addict

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    Thats just saved me a few posts when i go PCP.

    Cheers :up:
     
  3. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    If using a pump, make sure you get one with a dry air pack, or you will be pumping your cylinder/bottle with water as well as air. When air is compressed the water vapour within in it condensed out - inside your rifles reservoir. From there it gets flushed through all your fine valve work......fancy buying a new rifle and running it under the tap? No, I wouldn't either.

    Get a pump with a dry air pack fitted. It is MUCH cheaper in the long run.
     
  4. lancealot1969

    lancealot1969 Engaging Member

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    I agree with Accuspell, I have a Hills BSA pump the Yellow one and it has a dry pack, I only pump my Daystate X2 up in the house too bloody knackering though if you have to pump from empty though!!!!
     
  5. drobson67

    drobson67 Banned

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    I nearly rubbed the excess grease off the shaft of my FX3 stage pump the other day thinking it would be beneficial, pleased I didn't now, great video. Are dry packs totally necessary because my pump has a built in moisture trap (not dry pack) and when bleeding the valve any water present would come out anyway, you also you have to replace the dry packs periodically and are not cheap. I only fill up in the house which isn't in a damp environment so which is best moisture trap or dry pack.
     
  6. PandaMan

    PandaMan Busy Member

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    seen it before. Very useful, however I do find him rather patronising.
    :)
     
  7. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    DRY PACK....they are not expensive at about £6 a refill.

    A new cylinder, valves and springs are much more expensive because you have filled your rifle with an eggcupful of water every time you pump it up without a dry pack!

    Even in the house the RH (Relative Humidity...look it up) is about 20% on a dry day. That makes the air almost 1 part in 5 water!
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  8. drobson67

    drobson67 Banned

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    I thought water gets caught in the moisture trap because it precipitates out of air under pressure then after pumping the bleed valve gets rid of the water. Surely these pumps wouldn't be sold if they were so destructive towards gun cylinders.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  9. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    There is nothing in the literature or on the pump to say it DOESN'T introduce water to the reservoir (of whatever type, bottle or tube) On the Hills dry pack it does say that it removes water vapour down to the old breathing air standard of 80ppm (parts per million).

    The pump does what it says it will do - it will pump air in to a pressure of around 200 bar. The natural science behind doing that is that any water vapour in the air is condensed out under pressure, the higher the pressure the harder the water is squeezed out and the drier the air has to be to start with. Taking some of the moisture out under pressure is simply not enough. The Hills dry pack dries the AMBIENT air, reducing the RH of the low pressure input air, not taking it out under pressure.

    Go into any airgun repairer (A&M Custom Gunsmiths, The Airgun Doctor or any other independent WHO DOESN'T SELL AIR RIFLES) and ask them about internal corrosion due to damp air being used. Then make your judgement. I saw the aluminium cylinder of a Steyr target pistol, one of Olympic hopefuls, that was only 6 months old. It had been filled using a standard pump. The cylinder had to be replaced as the corrossion had already pitted the wall of the reservoir, but more than that, it had pitted some of the valving parts too, affecting the flow of air and making it inconsistent (in competition terms).

    The same reason is why the PCP makers are now saying that the reservoir needs to be checked after 5 years service. People simply do not understand the simple science behind Boyles law and Relative Humidity - go and find out about it and realise why you need to have breathing quality air to ensure the longevity of your rifles internals. In the UK we have a maritime climate, so our air is NEVER dry, it is closer to 40% RH each day, and if it is a cloudy day (how many of those do we get?!!!) it will be higher. We OFTEN have 75% RH and a low dew point the other factor surrounding the amount of water vapour that will get into your rifle - higher the temperature the higher the dew point, but we haven't many high temperature days this year either.....the dew point is a combunation of RH and temperature. Warmer air can carry more water vapour, but as it cools, or gets compressed, that water vapour can no longer be contained and it condenses out. The driest air would be on a clear, crisp, winter day, because at -3C with clear skies (no clouds) the air cannot contain much water vapour. On a day like today with showers around, the RH is about 80% (that is 800,000 ppm) and the temperature is not that high either (15C maybe?) so the amount of water vapour carried is high and it will drop out very easily due to the already low temperature......which is why it might rain! Fill your rifle with air from a standard pump today and you will be introducing plenty of water!

    The pumps are sold as being able to supply high pressure air. There is nothing wrong in that statement. Where on the standard pump does it say it provides high pressure air without water vapour in it? Of course they can sell a pump like that - it isn't them that is filling your rifle, you choose to do that. This is why HILLs have gone to such lengths to develop their dry air pack and even that doesn't take out all the moisture, but it does a damn good job and is OK up to 180 bar or so, but not as good as divers air (TRUE divers air, not just from a compressor because if the filling point doesn't bother changing their humidity filter on the compressor, you might as well use the pump). Dive shops have to provide DRY air for breathing and any one that doesn't will drown their customers due to the water vapour contained in compressed air that is not dried.
     
  10. drobson67

    drobson67 Banned

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    Thanks for the advice I didn't realise just how much water was present in air, I think eventually I will get a dive bottle for peace of mind.
     
  11. lnevett

    lnevett Member

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    Page 2, Introduction, on the FX pumps manual, and I quote "Both are equipped with a exceptional two stage filtration system that ensures that both moisture and particles are eliminated from compresed air."

    If I trust them enough to buy a rifle from them, I should trust on what the say on the manual...

    Just my opinion.
     
  12. splat

    splat Donator

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    Minor point ( just for info)....water is virtually incompressable . Iirc something like 0.000000136% or there abouts. So any quantity of water in a pressure vessel reduces its capacity by the percentage of water to the stated cylinder size (WC ). IE you get less shots per fill.
     
  13. drobson67

    drobson67 Banned

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    There are so many conflicting opinions on how good or bad these pumps with moisture traps are at removing water from compressed air, I've heard that dry packs aren't much good either and I'm starting to wonder if its just scare mongering or misinformation. I have the FX3-stage pump and was told they have glass balls which traps the water when it condenses, maybe some pumps are worse at removing water and gets them all a bad name but FX pumps have a good reputation and I've not seen anything bad written about them. It would be interesting to hear from people who have owned stirrup pumps for a few years and to get their prospective on this matter.
     
  14. splat

    splat Donator

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    Last proper compressors I used (and serviced) had condensate dump valves....after a run on reaching cut off pressure they dumped to atmosphere. The filters were only particle,compressor oil and unwanted gases.( breathing quality air)
     

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