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I love debates, heres another! :D

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by TheBish, Mar 4, 2014.

  1. TheBish

    TheBish Junior Member

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    Hello again all
    If a rifle is a 'Carbine' or a normal length, does it effect accuracy, whether the answer is scientific or from experience it doesn't matter.
    Faithfully
    Alex
     
  2. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

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    No,When a rifle is manufactured in carbine,it will usually have the same length/rifle twist ratio as the full length version will have.

    it's when you carbine a full length one by chopping the barrel that sometimes you loose a bit of power or accuracy.
     
  3. DUNKS

    DUNKS Big Poster

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    From experience. NO!
     
  4. Tinbum

    Tinbum Delusions of adequacy

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    With regard to accuracy,I believe it was John Bowkett who did the research and discovered anything over 7" has no appreciable improvement.

    Powers another matter and 12" minimum is recommended for a springer and PCP's have different rules entirely.
     
  5. bl4de

    bl4de Donator

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    Have carbined, cut 'n crowned many a ratty Barrel and not noticed any difference.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  6. reaper6

    reaper6 Banned

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    Your up late mate
     
  7. TheBish

    TheBish Junior Member

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    Thanks for the reply's, what would happen if I put a full length barrel on a carbine?
    Atb Alex
     
  8. Tinbum

    Tinbum Delusions of adequacy

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    It'd be longer.
     
  9. Smithz

    Smithz Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant :claping:


    But all joking a side in the aspects of air rifles in general the only difference between Carbine and Standard lenght is the barrel it's self so putting a full lenght barrel on a carbine would simply make it bigger.

    Except in some Pcp's i believe in some carbine models not only is the barrel shortened but so is the air cylinder so it is made shorter and lighter, but a smaller air cylinder means less air which means less shots pre fill.

    Thats my observations anyway.
     
  10. bobbie1

    bobbie1 Busy Member

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    It depends weather the pellet was still accelerating when it left the shorter barrel, if it was it may produce more power with the longer barrel,
    if it was at it's peak when the pellet left the shorter barrel it would lose power with the longer barrel ,
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  11. walker

    walker Busy Member

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    you put a longer barrel on a pcp i think the power would go up slightly. if you chop a barrel down you lose power as more air is needed to get the pellet up to speed because it leaves the barrel earlier as its shorter. i think thats right?
     
  12. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

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    I believe a longer barrel will take wind better, hence making it more accurate at range.

    I love carbines and have had some absolute belters but in my experience if you were to set targets at say 50 yrds and measure the centre to centre distances of a 5 shot group from every airgun Ive ever owned, I think the longest would be the most accurate for sure, but you wouldn't notice a difference up to 30 yrds.

    I got a .177 rapid at the moment I would love to shorten, but I could never chop that barrel its a stonker.
     
  13. Tinbum

    Tinbum Delusions of adequacy

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    Haha, that is you're whacky English senses of humour no?

    The wind drift is effected by the velocity, BC and distance travelled. The length of barrel has nothing to do with it excepting that;

    a) the velocity may be increased
    b) the distance from muzzle to target is 2" less
     
  14. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

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    Its also determined by the rotation of the projectile, try shooting a pellet from a smooth bore compared to a rifled barrel and see what you get.

    Remember when a pellet travelling down a long barrel its being driven, when it comes out of a barrel its on its own from that point onwards, unfortunately we cant measure the rotation speed of a pellet at say 30-50 yrd down range but I would guess there is a relationship between rate of spin and length of barrel.

    When you look at the group from a gun with a 7 inch barrel compared to say a 19 inch barrel, when using the same pellet doing the same velocity, the 19 inch barrel will put in a better group at 40-50 yrd in my experience.

    A good example is a comparison of an fn12 to say an fn19 go shoot a few 45 yrd groups with both I think the longer gun will take wind better hence being the more accurate.;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
  15. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

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    Ill give you an example I have a .177 hw100tk obviously very short barrel.

    I also have a regged Mk2 Rapid with a 19" .177.

    They both do 11.3 ft/ibs with airarms field, they are both regged, they will both shoot one hole groups at 30yrds.

    But push that to 40 things change a bit, then 45 and 50 is a game changer, the rapid seems better at range.

    So My hw barrel is good the gun is consistent everything is as it should be, but the Rapid has a longer barrel so inmo that makes it take wind better,

    Some people like to blame either the scope or the pellet or barrel crown, etc etc I think its often overlooked that one barrel will surely result in a different rate of spin to another and this has an effect on accuracy at range.
     
  16. El Caro

    El Caro Keyboard Hero

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    Even with different lengths of barrel, given the rate of twist of the rifling is the same, the rate of spin of the pellet will be the same. It cannot be otherwise:).
     
  17. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    Make of barrel?
    What barrel is your HW wearing?
    What make of barrel is your Rapid wearing?

    Different barrels have different rifiling cuts - Lowther Walther and BSA use lands and grooves, Anschutz (many Rapids use these, unless they have been rebarrelled) use a knife edge rifling. I am sure these have a bearing on long range accuracy
     
  18. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

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    That doesnt matter the twist rate can be the same, but on different legth barrels will spin pellets at a different rates, at given ranges thats just physics its a bit like saying drop 3 apples out of the sky and they will all fall at the same speed, the atmosphere creates the variable immediately as the projectile leaves the barrel.

    Its not the fact that a few inches makes much more difference to velocity as hammer/strength or reg pressure determins this on the individual rifle, more the fact for a few more inches the pellet is being driven rather than experiencing drag, in other words with the tiny ammounts of power an airgun makes a few inches on a barrel can make a world of difference, if we could measure the spin on a pellet downrange all barrels would spin a pellet at slightly different rates, the difference may be minute from one to another but it would be there im sure.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
  19. El Caro

    El Caro Keyboard Hero

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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
  20. metalman

    metalman Big Poster

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