1. The Forum Rules have undergone some minor changes and updates.  Please take the time to read them; it will only take a couple of minutes of your time. By doing so, you lessen the chance of incurring the wrath of the moderation team or making yourself look foolish to other members.

    90% of users posting adverts in the Sales forums need to be reminded to read the rules as their posts are wrong.  This is unnecessarily time-consuming and will no longer happen - if your advert doesn't follow the Sales Rules it will be deleted and you'll have to start all over again.

    To close this box once you've read it (and the Rules), click on the X in the top right-hand corner.

    Thank you.

    AGF Staff



    Dismiss Notice
  2. A reminder of one of the Forum Rules:

    'Behaviour

    Do not make inappropriate or offensive posts - including threats, harassment, swearing, prejudice, defamation, deliberate insults or name-calling, other negative remarks about this forum, its moderators and administrators or your fellow members. Even if this is just your own personal opinion, RESPECT YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS.'

    There have been changes made to our censoring software in an attempt to help with this growing problem.

    Click the X in the top-right-hand corner to dismiss this notice.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Dear members,

    Our membership (like our country) consists of people from all walks of life; different in far more ways than can be listed here and each with a different view based on their experience of life - regardless of their colour, religion or cultural heritage. Every single person in the UK has been born of mixed race – we are a multi-coloured and multi-cultural country.

    As many of you are aware there are a handful of individuals amongst this membership that persist in making provocative, inflammatory, racist and otherwise offensive comments. This has been happening across the forum to a certain degree but is most especially prevalent in the Adult section.

    The moderation team has tried to stay on top of this, however unfortunately because of the ‘offensive’ nature of much of its content we don’t monitor the Adult section quite as much as perhaps we should. As a result much of this behaviour has gone unnoticed unless it has been reported to us. While the team always intended to take a "light touch" approach to the Adult section it would seem that some people aren’t quite adult enough to be left unmonitored after all.

    This behaviour is, and always has been against Forum Rules as well as the specific stipulations of the Adults forum and it will no longer be tolerated. We feel it's time to draw a line in the sand and as such from this point onward offenders will receive an immediate and permanent ban from the forum.

    In order for us to achieve our goal of restoring the forum to the friendly and tolerant place it once was, we ask that ALL members be mindful of the content they post and help us to stop unacceptable behaviour by using the 'Report' tool at the bottom of any offending post - the results of which can be seen only by Admin/Moderators.

    You should all receive a copy of this message by PM. 

    To close this message box, click on the 'X' in the top-right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Hotmail block emails from us entering your inbox. Unless you can setup a safe sender you will not get activation emails from the forum. Please use an alternative provider or complain to Hotmail.
    Hotmail addresses include.

    @Hotmail.co.uk @Hotmail.com @outlook.com @Live.com
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Postings on Politics, Religion & Controversial Off-Topic Material

    The majority of users do not want to read about these subjects and people have left the forum as a result of it – this is after all an 'Airgun' Forum. It’s all very well to say they don’t have to read it if they don't want to, but as most of us use the ‘New Posts’ button there is no easy way to avoid it.

    All AGF staff members are in favour of people being able to discuss what they want, but we have to draw the line somewhere if it is upsetting other users. We don’t want to read about these topics either.

    IMPORTANT- The discussion of politics and religion is no longer allowed anywhere on the forum (including the Adult section).  The only exception is if it's airgun related - they must be put in the Airgun Related Politics section..

    We will not tolerate bullying or personal attacks, racism or any other offensive 'isms'. we will remove these topics from the forum, we will not give you an area where you can abuse each other. We will not hesitate to ban offenders.

    To clear this text box, click on the 'X' in the top right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice

HW99s - has anyone actually shortened a barrel on one ?

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by 177, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. 177

    177 Donator

    Messages:
    7,704
    Likes Received:
    567
    Location:
    Berwick upon Tweed
    I know people say the .22 can be shortened and the .177 can't without dropping power but has anyone tried and, if so, what were your results ?

    I'm considering chrono testing my .177 HW99s this morning and then see what happens, recording any differences as I go. I suspect 2 or 3 inches won't make a vast difference and then a sudden drop might occur.

    I'll be putting a new .22 barrel on the gun and a shorter mainspring soon anyway so this one is sacrificial as far as I am concerned.

    Anyone ?
     
  2. 177

    177 Donator

    Messages:
    7,704
    Likes Received:
    567
    Location:
    Berwick upon Tweed
    About to start cutting...

    ;)
     
  3. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

    Messages:
    16,783
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    Drenewydd, Powys, Cymru
    Will be interetsed to see what happens with this.
     
  4. mikemjm

    mikemjm Donator

    Messages:
    2,019
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    bham
    Wonky donkey has worked on a 99 in 177 I believe from the other forum
     
  5. 177

    177 Donator

    Messages:
    7,704
    Likes Received:
    567
    Location:
    Berwick upon Tweed
    Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls and, to be entirely PC, other:

    Being a naturally lazy hack I couldn't be on doing an inch at a time, so I went two inches on the first cut and then one inch more on the second :rolleyes:

    This is a fresh, out of the box HW99s in .177

    I have a couple of these at home at the moment, due to various experiments and ideas I want to try :rolleyes:

    Cleaned the barrel out with petrol soaked cotton buds worked up and down the barrel with a soft plastic rod. Ran 30 pellets through and then chrono tested the gun with .177 Air Arms Field pellets straight out of the tin (figures in FPS):

    744.9
    745.7
    749.7
    746.5
    745.5
    748.0
    741.7
    742.8
    742.8 :eek:
    749.4

    OK, ten pretty consistent shots, a little low for some people but around 10.4 ish FPE so not too shabby - more than enough for hunting and, as long as you have consistency, power is irrelevant for plinking or target shooting.

    Barrel marked out with tape (high tech ;) ), a pellet shoved into the barrel backwards to stop any crap going down and buggering up the rifling or bore, and hacksaw at the ready:

    [​IMG]

    Two inches lopped off:

    [​IMG]

    At this point I squared off the barrel end with a file and rotated the rounded end of a round ceramic sharpening rod a dozen or so times into the barrel end to take any swarf out and give a very rough attempt at a crown.

    Next ten shots:

    749.4
    748.8
    745.3
    746.3
    755.1
    737.6
    786.7 :eek:
    791.2 :eek:
    745.0
    790.1:eek:

    OK, the baseline average isn't bad at all but there are some anomalous results in there. Muzzle report seems a little louder as well and cocking effort, as you would expect, is increased due to lost leverage.

    Rather that fart about trying to bottom out what's going on I went for another inch (in a manner of speaking ;) ):

    [​IMG]

    I repeated the squaring off and rough dressing of the barrel end and then chrono tested again:

    747.2
    789.2
    773.0 - at this point, given another high reading like this, I re-dressed the 'crown' again and the following shots responded well as follows:
    752.4
    746.2
    748.1
    749.0
    748.9
    745.9
    747.2

    Now, anyone can feel free to knock the above methods as much as they like - I used simple techniques and tools just to satisfy my own curiosity after reading so many people saying you couldn't shorten a .177 HW99s barrel and maintain power.

    Perhaps the challenge will come in trying to lift the gun above the 10.4 it is pootling along at presently. Frankly, I'd take a consistent 10.4 with an easy gun to shoot over something a little more enthusiastic, so power is not really a major issue here. I will finish the barrel off properly during the week when I have access to the workshop (as opposed to the garden shed :rolleyes: ) and I reckon a piston polish and decent lube will probably see the gun hit the high 10's or maybe just nudge into the 11's without introducing anything nasty.

    I'm not suggesting anyone attempt this or that you will enjoy the same results as me. As in all things, your mileage may well vary and, if in doubt, do nowt !


    Note that this is not a 'tuning' thread since I won't be doing anything to the internals (for now) that requires machining or new parts. I specifically want to see what I can do with a factory HW99s in .177 with a shorter barrel and to avoid clouding the issue I won't be adding any tuning into the mix beyond a degrease, piston polish, debur, lube and reassembly.

    The gun now looks like this:

    [​IMG]

    Nice...

    More to follow as and when I get around to monkeying on with it a bit more :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014
  6. SteveO

    SteveO Top Poster

    Messages:
    11,077
    Likes Received:
    10,153
    Location:
    Kek
    Just to clarify Barry, how many inches did you lose total? 3?
     
  7. 177

    177 Donator

    Messages:
    7,704
    Likes Received:
    567
    Location:
    Berwick upon Tweed
    Yep, 3 inches in total - 2+1 :) with precisely no loss of power in .177 :D

    Cocking requires more grunt mind, and muzzle report is louder again so I need to arrange a moderator for the business end.

    Given my size and shape I don't mind tussling with the shorter barrel but if anyone else is considering doing this you should mark you barrel with tape or similar and try cocking it by holding it a few inches down from the end. Don't just do it the once - try it for a shooting or hunting session. If it knackers your elbows then don't shorten the barrel !

    Also keep in mind that a moderator will add the original length back on, but that will be the original length which now includes a moderator instead of original barrel length + moderator.

    As I say, I have a couple of these guns here at the moment AND a spare barrel so this was an experiment based on being able to quickly and easily recover the gun back to its original state if things went that strange shape of pear.

    In other words, don't try this at home unless you are prepared to fork out for a replacement barrel if you screw yours up !
     
  8. SteveO

    SteveO Top Poster

    Messages:
    11,077
    Likes Received:
    10,153
    Location:
    Kek
    From memory 6" was taken from my barrel before purchase, would you be prepared to lose another 3" to compare :D

    Getting a healthy 11fpe from mine now and apart from lubing it up with some of that expensive PTFE grease it's remained untouched and much loved!
     
  9. 177

    177 Donator

    Messages:
    7,704
    Likes Received:
    567
    Location:
    Berwick upon Tweed
    I might try that, some other time.

    It's about 4 inches shorter than my Theoben Sirocco at the moment, which will obviously change when I put a silencer on the HW99s.

    To be honest I am more interested in getting a moderator and scope on there and seeing what it groups like. That's tomorrow morning taken care of...

    ;)

    Assuming it shoots OK I will polish the piston and lube with Ultimox or Quantum reel grease, and see where it sits after doing that. The new Weihrauch piston seals are outstanding, so no point in changing it unless you have to IMHO, although I'll keep a close eye on it since I've heard some reports of them not lasting long...

    The devil on my shoulder this morning was trying to persuade me to shorten it like a Fenman :rolleyes:

    If it shoots well I'll leave it as is and revisit another time :)
     
  10. hairyarms

    hairyarms .

    Messages:
    5,494
    Likes Received:
    7,042
    Location:
    Brierley Hill.
    I used to have Steve's 99 and it was cut down with a hacksaw and not very well! Steve said it was still accurate even though it wasn't square.I replaced that 99 with a 95 but to be honest the 95 wasn't as good .

    I might buy another one, the only reason I sold it was I badly cut my thumb at work and I found it painful to cock.If I get one I will put this muzzle weight on it. SAM_1040.jpg It weighs about 300 grams and I think it will make it shoot even nicer.
     
  11. 177

    177 Donator

    Messages:
    7,704
    Likes Received:
    567
    Location:
    Berwick upon Tweed
    The really bizarre thing about the HW99s is that it doesn't seem to suffer from the same muzzle flip as the HW95

    I have both and the 99 is much nicer to shoot as a 'bare' gun than the 95

    I doubt you'd need a muzzle weight on one and, if you did, you wouldn't need anywhere near as much as an HW95

    Just my opinion though - whatever works for an individual is all good :)
     
  12. hairyarms

    hairyarms .

    Messages:
    5,494
    Likes Received:
    7,042
    Location:
    Brierley Hill.
    No I might not need it but I was thinking of more of a cocking aid for my poorly thumb! if it makes it a bit front heavy I will put some 1" bar in the stock to balance it out a bit.
     
  13. SteveO

    SteveO Top Poster

    Messages:
    11,077
    Likes Received:
    10,153
    Location:
    Kek
    Micah,

    You really don't consider the 95 to be as good? I'm surprised!

    Can you explain 'muzzle flip' to me guys, heard it quite a lot but never had it explained to me, shooting PCP mainly I probably don't experience if often!
     
  14. 177

    177 Donator

    Messages:
    7,704
    Likes Received:
    567
    Location:
    Berwick upon Tweed
    The HW95 muzzle flip is where the front end lifts up when shooting. An out of the box 95 is quite noticeable for this. A very well tuned 95 will be almost dead on firing and probably won't need much 'up front', if anything.

    Something in the middle of a serious tune and out of the box does well with a bit if weight added to the front - 225 grams appears to be about right, or so I found recently, when playing with fishing weights and tape and checking the results :rolleyes:

    Some people have started added lead washers into moderators to give a bit of weight where its needed.

    Whatever works :)
     
  15. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

    Messages:
    16,783
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    Drenewydd, Powys, Cymru
    My 95 came ready tuned and is as smooth as you like to shoot. Have heard a lot of talk about the 95 being susceptible to muzzle flip, but have never experienced it myself, so it must be pretty easily sorted even though commonplace out of the box. Mine also came with a fairly big moderator on the carbine barrel, so this may have something to do with the reduced / eliminated flip.
     
  16. mark.177

    mark.177 Donator

    Messages:
    2,187
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Rilla Mill, Callington
    i sacrificed the last compartment in the moderator using it to add some weight to the muzzle. found a deep socket that fitted exactly with a bit of electrical tape to make a tight fit and inside the socket are nuts filling it to the end. rifles still in bits but wanted to try it with more weight up front.
    would like a blued steal muzzle weigh made for it idealy
     
  17. hairyarms

    hairyarms .

    Messages:
    5,494
    Likes Received:
    7,042
    Location:
    Brierley Hill.
    Yes mate I bought a .177 95 and it seemed jumpy compared to my old .22 version.It was also too long even with a SFS Stubby silencer on it.That 99 just shot different it seemed really fast?!? If I get one I will have to do the cocking slot mod so I will be asking some questions mate!
     
  18. 177

    177 Donator

    Messages:
    7,704
    Likes Received:
    567
    Location:
    Berwick upon Tweed
    Weihrauch have modified the HW99s cocking slot now so if you buy a new one it will already be taken care of.
     
  19. 177

    177 Donator

    Messages:
    7,704
    Likes Received:
    567
    Location:
    Berwick upon Tweed
    HW99s as it currently stands with the barrel shortened by 3 inches, next to my old Theoben Sirocco for comparison:

    [​IMG]
     
  20. wonky donky

    wonky donky Donator

    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Wellington

    Don't bank on it there are quite a few without the mod out there still I would think. I bought a new 99s in .22 last week knowing it was older stock.

    I took the rifle out of the box & took the stock off, it had already started to gall from the test shooting at the factory. SEE HERE

    I have left the rest of the images open in my account for people to see how it could be fixed but for some reason they are in reverse order :D Sorry about that :eek:
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice