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Advice HW80 RECOIL

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by yannzz, Nov 24, 2008.

  1. yannzz

    yannzz Member

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    :help:Can anyone advise on an easy method of reducing the recoil on an HW80?

    I recently lightly greased the main spring with molydenum disculphide based Bisley gun grease, this smoothed out the recoil a little & gave much better grouping. The POI dropped slightly so I guess the grease reduced fps slightly, I don't have a chrono so I can't be 100% sure. It was ok for a while but now after 1000 rounds or so the POI & power has crept back up & grouping has suffered as a result.

    Every one says don't hold a powerful springer too tightly, but the darn thing virtually leaps out of my hands if I do that! I find follow through virtually impossible :eek: due to the heavy recoil.

    Any one had similar experiences with this gun? I don't doubt it's accuracy if I can master the muzzle flip!!!

    I can group 2.5 to 3"" with ten shots at 30 yards (one arm supported) but that's crap from what I have read on here!

    Any marskmen out there with a bit of friendly advice, like buy a PCP? CHEERS ::)
     
  2. Darren Petts

    Darren Petts Temporarily Alive

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    What pellets are you using? All barrels prefer one brand to another.
     
  3. yannzz

    yannzz Member

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    I use RWS super H point, find they give best grouping up to 40yards. I have tried many including H&N FTT and RWS superfields , Daystate FT, H&N Spitzkugelen.
     
  4. hughie

    hughie Posting Addict

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    I had recoil problems with my BSA lightning. I eventually got round it with pratice though.Dont try and fight the recoil because you wont win , the gun will always recoil never mind what you do. Hold the gun firmly but not too tightly and be careful pulling the trigger.Dont yank as this can really change your point of impact. Use the crook of your finger.
    most of all dont give up because i got extremely fed up when i had my recoil problem but i kept going and eventually got round it.
    Also placing springers on hard objects dont work so dont try stopping your recoil by leaning your rifle on anything except soft objects like a pillow.
     
  5. Andy

    Andy Administrative Staff Member Founder

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    Does this gun have the original spring in it or has it been changed, the HW80 was made as a magnum springer, it's a cannon that needs taming.
    I would not be surprised if you gun is well over the limit, i would get it to a gun smith and let him tune it for you.
     
  6. yannzz

    yannzz Member

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    Thanks for the advice guys, as far as I know it's 12FPE, I purchased it S/H from a gun shop, it was like new & still very tight, apparently the original owner was an old boy who found it too heavy & didn't get on with it!
     
  7. sumo

    sumo Posting Addict

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    Just curious mate if you might be anticipating the recoil as you pull the trigger and jerk the gun unintentially.
    I know I did with my .357 winchester but I didnt realise I was doing it until my mate and teacher handed the rifle to me and told me to shoot a target he had set up.
    I aimed,pulled the trigger and click!.
    The gun was unloaded but I had flinched expecting a recoil and jerked the gun,couldnt argue after that.
    Technique might be what your after,just a thought mate;).
    I bought a FAC .22 HW80 from airgunner177 and she shoots as sweet as a nut.
    She groups an inch at 30 yards easy!:up:.
    And shes very pretty too!.:D
     
  8. DAVE HKR

    DAVE HKR Newbie

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    Ive just bought a brand new 80k a few weeks ago, the first thing i did was change all the internals, spring was cut, running at around 10ft1bs, seal was rubbish, and the amount at crap in the chamber :0(
    anyway now running sweet with a titan xs spring, chamber polished, new v-mach seal, and now a very nice rifle, Hull cartridge are butchers.
     
  9. Bunny sniper

    Bunny sniper Active Member

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    hi mate had an 80 for years, you need crossman powerpels or ely wasps 5.6 mm i had that problem but i got a lazaglide done on the cheap and that sorted the problem out the thing is the 80 is heavy enuff usually to withstand the recoil, go get a chrono done at your local dealer as i found with mine that after about 3000 rds my 80 was shooting at just under 21 ftlbs, which of course led to trouble with the rozzers, just get it checked for your own sake
     
  10. yannzz

    yannzz Member

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    80 Power

    I think your right I will have to get my 80 Chronoed, it was S/H so it may have been tampered with and, over 12 FPE. The gun shop should have tested it prior to sale though! It appears to have a little more power than my mates BSA Hornet & they must be close to 12FPE fully charged surely?

    This 12FPE law for air rifles is a joke when you consider the law or, lack of laws regarding cross bows!!! :mad: It should be 18 at least :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  11. Vulcanator

    Vulcanator Engaging Member

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    My Beeman R9 (HW95) puts out just under 15ft/lb, is lighter than an HW80 but has recoil that is no way unmanageable. I must admit I find it hard to believe that a heavier, more substantial rifle in the HW80 is giving you so much grief! Trust me I'm not a big guy, so it seems to me that technique and perhaps a tune will get you going in the right direction.
     
  12. yannzz

    yannzz Member

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    No one who has fired it yet can group as well as I can with it, statements like hurrendous and blunderbust crop up from fellow shooters, so something is a bit iffy with it?
    Reading other groups it appears HW80's in 12Ftlbs are difficult to master to say the least, HW 95's are a newer gun & meant to be much easier to shoot, have you tried an HW80 (Beeman R1) Vulcanator??? a restricted one that is for the UK market. They are said to be much better at 18-20ft/lbs which is what they were designed for.
     
  13. Vulcanator

    Vulcanator Engaging Member

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    I have not fired an R1 but over here they are held in the highest regard. The only difference between an export spec R1 (HW80) and a 12ft/lb version is the mainspring. If you have an issue with a UK spec version it would stand to reason that an export version would be more disconcerting to use due to the more powerful mainspring.

    I've read many posts regarding he firing cycle of an HW80 being somewhat undesirable in an untuned state at the 12ft/lb level. Recoil is subject to interpretation and I find it hard to believe that some people have issues with it!
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2008
  14. yannzz

    yannzz Member

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    Clearly many people DO have problems with recoil, not all of us have the luxury of owning multiple guns including real firearms! Or get the chance to practice regularly enough to be a marksman Vulcanator. The surging sales of PCP's is surely self evident that many prefer the recoil-less action for improved accuracy, even if the experience leaves you feeling a little hollow.

    My original question was not whether my gun actually had a recoil problem but advice on hold techniques and, anything mechanical I could do to the gun to tame it a little.

    Perhaps for experienced shooters like yourself this is difficult to grasp, but if i could turn the clock back I would not have bought this gun.

    Here in the UK most springer HFT trophies are won by Air Arms models, I recently had the opportunity to fire such a gun the TX200 I think? I found my grouping improved dramatically even though I was new to the gun, it was just sooooooooooo much nicer to shoot!!!
    Perhaps for the beginner this gun was not a good choice! Oh well you live & learn.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2008
  15. Vulcanator

    Vulcanator Engaging Member

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    I'm sorry to hear that you are having a bad experience with what is a great rifle. What you may consider doing is installing a V-Mach kit in your HW80. Once installed make sure the stock screws are tight. When it comes to shooting it do not grasp the rifle too tightly, let the fore-end rest in your supporting hand. Apply all the normal shooting techniques of breathing, follow through etc and allow the rifle to recoil. This should go a long way in helping you out.

    I don't know how long you've had this rifle but perhaps more practice would be in order. How good is you grouping from a sitting or prone position? Do you use a scope? You talk about PCP's and their ability to shoot more accurately-you're right the PCP is more tolerant of the mediocre shot! A springer requires work, perseverance, patience, technique, if you're up to the task then the HW80 should be able to deliver the goods. I know of many people who eschew the "soulless" PCP and take on the challenge and superior reward of shooting a springer-myself being one of them!

    I hope you give your rifle a second chance, I have faith that with time it will win your confidence.
     
  16. yannzz

    yannzz Member

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    Thanks for the advice Vulcanator, I agree with you in some respects PCP's are a little "soulless". I have fired a few & to be honest they left me feeling cold. But I guess the main reason for PCP's success is for their ability to shoot very accurately in the hands of a relative novice, although hitting a small 20mm knock down target 45 yards out and 30 feet up in a tree still takes some doing! (FOR ME ANYWAY ;-)

    I recently attended a UK national HFT shooting event in Essex (just as an observer) I didn't see many springers there, almost all of the rifles were PCP. One guy with a .177 PCP managed to score 58/60 no mean feat given the tiny targets on a very blustery wet day.
    I believe the springers are in a different classification as they can't really compete, as is the .22 calibre.

    I have fired real firearms, a couple of years back I went to Prague on a stage weekend with a few mates & one of the activities for the week end was shooting. The laws on fire-arms in the Czech republic are not as strict as in the uk so all manner of firearms were available to shoot. I managed to shoot a 9mm Glock (couldn't miss) a great pistol! Pump action shot gun & a 357 Magnum complete with a flaming barrel & red hot shells whizzing past my ears, what a gun & what a day!!! GO AHEAD MAKE MY DAY PUNK :))

    Back to my gun though, you mentioned firing position, well, I find seated suits me best left hand supporting the gun right arm free with a fairly loose hold & I never let the gun rest on a hard surface. I use a BSA scope 3-9x40 a good budget scope but I think the objective is set to 100 yards & not adjustable so 9x is not sharp below 50 yards & no parallax. I am not 100% sure but the name Deerhunter now suggests to me full bore fire-arms use. I can't really use the scope as an excuse for my poor grouping as its fine up to 6x but I do I plan to upgrade soon. I am looking at a Richter illuminated mildot (are they any good?) I find mildots much easier to judge hold over. This is an area I find very difficult with a 30/30 reticle as the 12FPE .22 pellet drops off very quickly after 40 yards or so & there are no markings between the cross hairs and the bottom pillar.

    I don't think I will bother with the V-Mach I have just spent nearly £300 on gun/scope/bag & I believe these kits are about £70 here, should I really have to cough up this extra dosh? The gun should be good from the factory.

    Thanks for your time & advice I am sure my grouping will improve given time & practice, unfortunately where I live there are not many indoor clubs open on a regular basis. Shooting in my garden is not really an option, the laws are so strict here you can't take your air rifle out into the country and practice without permission of the land owner, it's classed as armed trespass & you can go to prison. I am lucky if I practice once every two weeks.
     
  17. Vulcanator

    Vulcanator Engaging Member

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    Dannzz,

    I'm an ex-pat who used to live in Basildon, Essex and was a member of the Chelmsford (1944) Rifle Club back in the 80's. UK airgun law permits you to shoot on your own property providing no pellet leaves your property boundary, so practice in your garden when you can.

    Have you considered shooting the 80 with open sights? Off the bench it should group about 3/4" over 25yds. Sounds like you definitely need a proper air rifle scope with parallax adjustment. Best of luck.
     
  18. gedstar

    gedstar Member

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    hi mate, i find that bisley magnums work well in mine and recoil is quite tolerable


    ged
     
  19. sumo

    sumo Posting Addict

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    I dont know whats up with your HW80 mate.
    I know mine is the most accurate sub 40yrd rifle in my stable.
    Sounds a stupid question I know,but could the barrel be bent?
    My only critisism of the HW80 is its weight, it weighs more than my Fabarm SAT12 with a full mag load and my MINI14 with its twin "spin n flip" 30 round mags loaded!:eek:.
    She is a heavy b****r,which you would think would minimise recoil?:confused:
    Dont shoot me down mate but could it be technique?:eek:

    Ian:)
     
  20. Vulcanator

    Vulcanator Engaging Member

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    Have to agree, I'm trying to get my had round this problem! If I were still living in Basildon I'd go round his gaffe and try it out for myself!
     

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