1. The Forum Rules have undergone some minor changes and updates.  Please take the time to read them; it will only take a couple of minutes of your time. By doing so, you lessen the chance of incurring the wrath of the moderation team or making yourself look foolish to other members.

    90% of users posting adverts in the Sales forums need to be reminded to read the rules as their posts are wrong.  This is unnecessarily time-consuming and will no longer happen - if your advert doesn't follow the Sales Rules it will be deleted and you'll have to start all over again.

    To close this box once you've read it (and the Rules), click on the X in the top right-hand corner.

    Thank you.

    AGF Staff



    Dismiss Notice
  2. A reminder of one of the Forum Rules:

    'Behaviour

    Do not make inappropriate or offensive posts - including threats, harassment, swearing, prejudice, defamation, deliberate insults or name-calling, other negative remarks about this forum, its moderators and administrators or your fellow members. Even if this is just your own personal opinion, RESPECT YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS.'

    There have been changes made to our censoring software in an attempt to help with this growing problem.

    Click the X in the top-right-hand corner to dismiss this notice.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Dear members,

    Our membership (like our country) consists of people from all walks of life; different in far more ways than can be listed here and each with a different view based on their experience of life - regardless of their colour, religion or cultural heritage. Every single person in the UK has been born of mixed race – we are a multi-coloured and multi-cultural country.

    As many of you are aware there are a handful of individuals amongst this membership that persist in making provocative, inflammatory, racist and otherwise offensive comments. This has been happening across the forum to a certain degree but is most especially prevalent in the Adult section.

    The moderation team has tried to stay on top of this, however unfortunately because of the ‘offensive’ nature of much of its content we don’t monitor the Adult section quite as much as perhaps we should. As a result much of this behaviour has gone unnoticed unless it has been reported to us. While the team always intended to take a "light touch" approach to the Adult section it would seem that some people aren’t quite adult enough to be left unmonitored after all.

    This behaviour is, and always has been against Forum Rules as well as the specific stipulations of the Adults forum and it will no longer be tolerated. We feel it's time to draw a line in the sand and as such from this point onward offenders will receive an immediate and permanent ban from the forum.

    In order for us to achieve our goal of restoring the forum to the friendly and tolerant place it once was, we ask that ALL members be mindful of the content they post and help us to stop unacceptable behaviour by using the 'Report' tool at the bottom of any offending post - the results of which can be seen only by Admin/Moderators.

    You should all receive a copy of this message by PM. 

    To close this message box, click on the 'X' in the top-right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Hotmail block emails from us entering your inbox. Unless you can setup a safe sender you will not get activation emails from the forum. Please use an alternative provider or complain to Hotmail.
    Hotmail addresses include.

    @Hotmail.co.uk @Hotmail.com @outlook.com @Live.com
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Postings on Politics, Religion & Controversial Off-Topic Material

    The majority of users do not want to read about these subjects and people have left the forum as a result of it – this is after all an 'Airgun' Forum. It’s all very well to say they don’t have to read it if they don't want to, but as most of us use the ‘New Posts’ button there is no easy way to avoid it.

    All AGF staff members are in favour of people being able to discuss what they want, but we have to draw the line somewhere if it is upsetting other users. We don’t want to read about these topics either.

    IMPORTANT- The discussion of politics and religion is no longer allowed anywhere on the forum (including the Adult section).  The only exception is if it's airgun related - they must be put in the Airgun Related Politics section..

    We will not tolerate bullying or personal attacks, racism or any other offensive 'isms'. we will remove these topics from the forum, we will not give you an area where you can abuse each other. We will not hesitate to ban offenders.

    To clear this text box, click on the 'X' in the top right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice

Hw110 Expert Needed Please.

Discussion in 'Technical' started by Dave Kelly, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. BallisticBill

    BallisticBill Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    1,692
    Location:
    Swindon
    As some of the pictures are mine, I may be able to help.
    @sagalout and @HW100Tuning have pointed to two components. The AT pin screws into the centre of the spring guide which @sagalout refers to as the AT pin. The pin in the centre of the striker assembly front cap is the firing pin, and you will be able to see if this is still in place without disassembling the gun.
    I think it's the AT pin.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
    Dave Kelly, sagalout and Scrinja like this.
  2. Scrinja

    Scrinja Et sic faciam Idiots

    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    1,257
    Location:
    Sierra Blanca Marbella
    :thumb: It Is

    Just cut a slot in it Dude..
     
  3. Sean110

    Sean110 Busy Member

    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    606
    Location:
    Hertfordshire
    100% the Anti Tamper pin as ive taken the thing out myself.

    The rifle is no different with it being in or out or any adjustment made to the power while it was being extracted.

    .
     
    Dave Kelly likes this.
  4. BallisticBill

    BallisticBill Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    1,692
    Location:
    Swindon
    Not strictly correct, as the AT pin adds mass to the striker assembly - the moving part when the gun is fired - so, in effect you are lightening the hammer while the hammer spring load remains the same. The pin isn't essential to the operation of the gun but there is likely to be a small change in power.
     
    Dave Kelly and Scrinja like this.
  5. Sean110

    Sean110 Busy Member

    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    606
    Location:
    Hertfordshire
    I stand correct Bill as ive done my testing with it. Its a long story ive had with the rifle as i was trying to up the power via the regulator. I set it to 100 bar did my testing and then i took the AT out and was shooting the same.

    But now im confused.

    Why didnt the power change when the AT was taken out?

    .
     
    Dave Kelly likes this.
  6. Sean110

    Sean110 Busy Member

    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    606
    Location:
    Hertfordshire
    I take the comment i said wrongly. I cant actually remember what the outcome was. I have some many different readings over the issues i was having i cant remember what was when or where.

    I do however remember taking it to the range to test and it was shooting a little hot but i still cant remember what i got up to on it.

    Taking the AT out would it increase the power?

    My understanding as youve pointed out it would lighten the spring making it hit harder or faster.



    .
     
    Dave Kelly likes this.
  7. sagalout

    sagalout What a plinker!

    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    4,335
    Location:
    Ross on Wye, Herefordshire
    Not quite.

    I think (probably wrongly) that if you lighten the hammer whilst all else is constant less mass hits the exhaust valve this therefore opens less releasing less air so lower power.
     
    Dave Kelly and BallisticBill like this.
  8. Sean110

    Sean110 Busy Member

    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    606
    Location:
    Hertfordshire
    Seems to me noone actually knows whats happening here. I suppose its the same as the pellet weight to power ratio argument everyone talks about.

    Ill stick with my springer

    .
     
    Dave Kelly and sagalout like this.
  9. BallisticBill

    BallisticBill Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    1,692
    Location:
    Swindon
    It's not simple. The energy in the spring would, in a frictionless system, transfer to the striker. A lighter striker would accelerate faster and reach a higher terminal velocity when the force from the spring is exhausted. But there a other factors to bear in mind. (1) It isn't frictionless and the unit contains lubricant which will act as a damper. The faster the striker the higher the losses. (2) Even if the energy were the same the momentum would be different. E=mv2, M=mv. Exactly how conservation of energy and transfer momentum affect the amount of air released is complex; the valve will open at different speeds and probably by different amounts. (3) The combination of progressively increasing valve spring pressure, and progressively reducing reg chamber pressure, as the valve opens, will result in a different release of air mass depending on the velocity of the striker. (4) Depending on how much energy is taken up by the valve at the point the striker assembly reaches the end of the stroke, the residual energy in the striker will be transferred to the striker housing, so the energy losses will be different.

    @Sean110, the whole system has similarities to a springer: sprung piston, firing valve taking the place of the pellet, but no air compression. I don't think the relationship between striker mass and power will be linear, and there may be a weight at which the relationship would reverse. It's more like springer tuning than pellet/weight power, I think - piston slam at one extreme, piston bounce at the other, the ideal being somewhere in between.

    I'm guessing the power would be lower. It might explain how HC set the power (then insert the AT) but, invariably, it's found by owners to be lower.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
    Dave Kelly, Sean110 and sagalout like this.
  10. sagalout

    sagalout What a plinker!

    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    4,335
    Location:
    Ross on Wye, Herefordshire
    Thanks @BallisticBill, now I know why I didn't bother going to skool :) I need to read that a few more times. I do find all this interesting and it explains why I struggle to set up a gun, it's because I have no idea what I'm doing :D
     
    Dave Kelly likes this.
  11. BallisticBill

    BallisticBill Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    1,692
    Location:
    Swindon
    Like most of us... finding out by trial and error. :thumb:
    It's good to have theoretical knowledge - and often helpful - but the systems are mostly too complex to calculate even if we claim to be intelligent! :confused:
    Just commenting in general... not about myself of course! :cool: ;)
     
    Dave Kelly and sagalout like this.
  12. Sean110

    Sean110 Busy Member

    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    606
    Location:
    Hertfordshire
    I kind of understand what you are saying but what we are talking about is the same thing, the same gun, the same spring, the same hammer, the same tests.
    All is taken out is the Anti Tamper which i wouldnt have a clue how much it weights.(I could go and weigh it)

    I know your saying there are other things that can come into the equation but they are still the same. If im thinking it right as a practical man, i would say its merely a fraction of a second difference i mean 0.001seconds, its hardly going to make a difference.

    .
     
    Dave Kelly and sagalout like this.
  13. BallisticBill

    BallisticBill Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    1,692
    Location:
    Swindon
    You may be right!

    I didn't say for sure it would go up or down but it will be different... maybe too small to measure.
    I'll guess -0.2ft lb.... approximate difference on a new gun straight from HC... more than once! (Long story! :facepalm:)

    If you have the action out give it a test before and after. Add something to our knowledge base! Just make sure the cylinder pressure is well above reg pressure and about the same, and (important) the test is at the same temperature with the same batch of pellets. Av 10 shots should do it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
    Sean110, Dave Kelly and sagalout like this.
  14. Scrinja

    Scrinja Et sic faciam Idiots

    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    1,257
    Location:
    Sierra Blanca Marbella
    Do not worry about it Dude...
    I myself are simply
    LAEVICULUS (Latin)
    when it comes to pellet guns...But @ least im Honest about it unlike some on here :rolleyes:
     
    sagalout, Wewekokowe and Dave Kelly like this.
  15. Dave Kelly

    Dave Kelly Engaging Member

    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    87
    So, I have finally exposed the rear of my striker shuttle.
    Certainly looks as though the pin has indeed fallen out!!
    tamper pin hole.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
    sagalout and Scrinja like this.
  16. sagalout

    sagalout What a plinker!

    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    4,335
    Location:
    Ross on Wye, Herefordshire
    That has cleared that up then. Did you buy the gun new?
     
    Dave Kelly likes this.
  17. Dave Kelly

    Dave Kelly Engaging Member

    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    87
    I did buy the gun new, about 16 months ago.
    I have only used it at the weekends.
    However, I have another concern with regards to the striker unit.
    Having removed it completely, when shaken left to right I hear/see the internal piston rattle.
    It must move about 3mm front to back!! Is this normal?
    I'll try and upload a short video later.
     
    sagalout likes this.
  18. HW100Tuning

    HW100Tuning Big Poster

    Messages:
    3,949
    Likes Received:
    5,429
    Location:
    Notts UK
    Normal - usually these units are not under a pre-tension.
     
    Dave Kelly likes this.
  19. BallisticBill

    BallisticBill Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    1,692
    Location:
    Swindon
    Don't worry about any movement if the power is okay. There's some movement in mine.:thumb:

    One thing I forgot to mention: although the AT pin is not necessary for the gun to function it possibly serves another purpose, which may be to help lock the power adjustment screw. The spring guide (the bit the pin fits inside) has a female thread which attaches to the male thread on the back of the firing pin. It's the depth of the male part in the female part which sets the spring load. I can't remember if that hole goes straight through, threaded to take the AT pin as well, or if it is stopped... straight through I think. I don't think the pin (coming in from the opposite end) makes contact with that male part but, if it does, it will act as a locking device. I think the pin reaches the end of it's thread first. You can check by gauging the depth, or let me know the length of your AT pin (as I have the measurements of the other components somewhere).

    In any case, the pin isn't essential as there is Loctite on that male/female joint. If you break the Loctite seal I'd suggest you reapply some - the weaker Loctite blue or purple.
     
    Dave Kelly likes this.
  20. sagalout

    sagalout What a plinker!

    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    4,335
    Location:
    Ross on Wye, Herefordshire
    Not a previous owner bvggering it about then.
     
    Dave Kelly likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice