1. The Forum Rules have undergone some minor changes and updates.  Please take the time to read them; it will only take a couple of minutes of your time. By doing so, you lessen the chance of incurring the wrath of the moderation team or making yourself look foolish to other members.

    90% of users posting adverts in the Sales forums need to be reminded to read the rules as their posts are wrong.  This is unnecessarily time-consuming and will no longer happen - if your advert doesn't follow the Sales Rules it will be deleted and you'll have to start all over again.

    To close this box once you've read it (and the Rules), click on the X in the top right-hand corner.

    Thank you.

    AGF Staff



    Dismiss Notice
  2. A reminder of one of the Forum Rules:

    'Behaviour

    Do not make inappropriate or offensive posts - including threats, harassment, swearing, prejudice, defamation, deliberate insults or name-calling, other negative remarks about this forum, its moderators and administrators or your fellow members. Even if this is just your own personal opinion, RESPECT YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS.'

    There have been changes made to our censoring software in an attempt to help with this growing problem.

    Click the X in the top-right-hand corner to dismiss this notice.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Dear members,

    Our membership (like our country) consists of people from all walks of life; different in far more ways than can be listed here and each with a different view based on their experience of life - regardless of their colour, religion or cultural heritage. Every single person in the UK has been born of mixed race – we are a multi-coloured and multi-cultural country.

    As many of you are aware there are a handful of individuals amongst this membership that persist in making provocative, inflammatory, racist and otherwise offensive comments. This has been happening across the forum to a certain degree but is most especially prevalent in the Adult section.

    The moderation team has tried to stay on top of this, however unfortunately because of the ‘offensive’ nature of much of its content we don’t monitor the Adult section quite as much as perhaps we should. As a result much of this behaviour has gone unnoticed unless it has been reported to us. While the team always intended to take a "light touch" approach to the Adult section it would seem that some people aren’t quite adult enough to be left unmonitored after all.

    This behaviour is, and always has been against Forum Rules as well as the specific stipulations of the Adults forum and it will no longer be tolerated. We feel it's time to draw a line in the sand and as such from this point onward offenders will receive an immediate and permanent ban from the forum.

    In order for us to achieve our goal of restoring the forum to the friendly and tolerant place it once was, we ask that ALL members be mindful of the content they post and help us to stop unacceptable behaviour by using the 'Report' tool at the bottom of any offending post - the results of which can be seen only by Admin/Moderators.

    You should all receive a copy of this message by PM. 

    To close this message box, click on the 'X' in the top-right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Hotmail block emails from us entering your inbox. Unless you can setup a safe sender you will not get activation emails from the forum. Please use an alternative provider or complain to Hotmail.
    Hotmail addresses include.

    @Hotmail.co.uk @Hotmail.com @outlook.com @Live.com
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Postings on Politics, Religion & Controversial Off-Topic Material

    The majority of users do not want to read about these subjects and people have left the forum as a result of it – this is after all an 'Airgun' Forum. It’s all very well to say they don’t have to read it if they don't want to, but as most of us use the ‘New Posts’ button there is no easy way to avoid it.

    All AGF staff members are in favour of people being able to discuss what they want, but we have to draw the line somewhere if it is upsetting other users. We don’t want to read about these topics either.

    IMPORTANT- The discussion of politics and religion is no longer allowed anywhere on the forum (including the Adult section).  The only exception is if it's airgun related - they must be put in the Airgun Related Politics section..

    We will not tolerate bullying or personal attacks, racism or any other offensive 'isms'. we will remove these topics from the forum, we will not give you an area where you can abuse each other. We will not hesitate to ban offenders.

    To clear this text box, click on the 'X' in the top right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice

Huntsman Regal Hr .177 Reg Pressure Intermittent

Discussion in 'Technical' started by AceSuper14U, Aug 24, 2020.

  1. AceSuper14U

    AceSuper14U KentishSniper

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Hi all,
    I’m relatively new to PCP’s and have a Huntsman Regal HR in .177 that I got off of someone on here. It’s just over 2 years old and is super accurate and reliable however intermittently over the last 3 weeks or so the pressure reading on the Reg will show less than its set pressure even though the main gauge shows more I.e main tube gauge will show say 180 bar the set Reg pressure is 90 bar but will show 65 bar but after a fill or two the reg shows it’s set pressure of 90 and will be ok for a while but then go back to reading 60,65 or 70??? At all times when the Reg shows low there is always more than 130bar in the main cylinder (checked this with dive bot) There seems to be no pattern to it...Any ideas what’s the issue please? Cheers, John.
     
  2. robs5230

    robs5230 Oversprung

    Messages:
    15,983
    Likes Received:
    21,581
    Location:
    bideford devon
    How does it chrono in the difefrent circumstances with the gauges ?
    Are you noticing a change in accuracy?

    It could simply be a fault with the reg pressure gauge, or it could be that the reg needs a service
     
    sagalout and jps norton like this.
  3. AceSuper14U

    AceSuper14U KentishSniper

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    It’s showing low now (70 bar) and it’s on full fill so I’ll run it through the chrono and see what the figures are....just about to go out so a job for tomorrow .
     
  4. robs5230

    robs5230 Oversprung

    Messages:
    15,983
    Likes Received:
    21,581
    Location:
    bideford devon
    The chrono will give a clue to whats going off.
     
    AceSuper14U likes this.
  5. AceSuper14U

    AceSuper14U KentishSniper

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    I’ll give an update as soon as I have some numbers, Cheers :thumb:
     
    robs5230 likes this.
  6. AceSuper14U

    AceSuper14U KentishSniper

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Just in case the reg needs a service/re-build I've purchased a rebuild kit from Huma. Cheap enough at £10.50 delivered and seems easy enough to do...Being just over 2 years old I have a sneaky feeling that's what the issue is....:rolleyes: but I will still be checking figures on Chrony later to make sure its not just the gauge playing up :thumb:
     
  7. AceSuper14U

    AceSuper14U KentishSniper

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    UPDATE: Right, I’ve put a load of pellets through the chrono and here are the results... Reg is not showing its correct set pressure at the moment but I’ve found figures from when it was from July when I got it and added to the end of picture 2. As you can see from the pictures/figures I’m still getting the same average FPS but there does not seem to be much consistency between each shot and more deviation than I would expect from a human regulated Daystate huntsman :shrug: so any ideas please kind chaps...please, pretty please....

    upload_2020-8-25_18-4-14.jpeg

    upload_2020-8-25_18-4-47.jpeg
     
  8. nevadacowboy

    nevadacowboy Keyboard Hero

    Messages:
    2,900
    Likes Received:
    3,027
    Location:
    Derbyshire
    You can test for reg creep by doing the following over the chrono.

    fire three shots quickly,

    fire three shots at one minute intervals

    fire 3 shots at two minute intervals.

    If the reg pressure rises during the longer shot intervals then you have reg creep.
     
  9. robs5230

    robs5230 Oversprung

    Messages:
    15,983
    Likes Received:
    21,581
    Location:
    bideford devon
    They don't look too bad at all. Try asking Daystate to confirm the reg pressure its set at.

    What pellet ? Some pellets can give more variation than others.

    Pretty sure there's only 4 o rings in a daystate huma reg so not a bad job to do.

    Testing for creep is a good idea as above.
     
  10. AceSuper14U

    AceSuper14U KentishSniper

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Ok if it’s Reg creep as is possible can it be solved by servicing the Reg using a rebuild kit from Huma?
     
  11. sagalout

    sagalout What a plinker!

    Messages:
    6,265
    Likes Received:
    8,715
    Location:
    Ross on Wye, Herefordshire
    In my limited experience (4 Huma regs creeping, Ok 2 creeping twice, the perils of tinkering :facepalm:) Huma creep is normally the delrin seal disk (gets dimple in the middle and then does not seal against the set pressure screw pip), not O rings but obviously replace the O rings at the same time.
     
    cloverleaf likes this.
  12. AceSuper14U

    AceSuper14U KentishSniper

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Ok thanks. The rebuild kit includes the seal disk as well as the o rings so I might as well replace the lot when it turns up. Ordered today from Huma :thumb:
     
  13. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    21,226
    Likes Received:
    28,424
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    This is a bit of an odd one and I can't offer you a whole lot in the way of explanation, but can make a few observations, for what they're worth:


    From your first image of results

    - You can see that the reg output pressure falls as input pressure does; this ("input pressure effect") is normal to an extent for any reg, although this seems a bit excessive compared to Huma regs I've tested in the past (although I've not had any experience with the DS items; but Huma tend to use the same format throughout so I'd expect performance to be similar).

    - Extreme velocity spread is really not very special (with a max of 26ft/s within one 10-shot string); this could be due to a reg issue, however people are often quick to incorrectly blame the reg when the cause lies elsewhere. IME DS "slingshot" strikers are poorly finished and can cause a lot of variation (I've clocked around 20ft/s over 10 shots in an unregged which obviously aren't dissimilar to your results). Weighing pellets and rejecting any obviously heavy or light examples can also rule out ammo as the cause of any variation.

    - Assuming you're using 10.34gn DS Heavies, at the published weight a good few of those shots are in excess of the legal limit. I'd suggest the energy wants tweaking down, although it might be worth repeating the tests with weighed pellets to rule out the high readings as being due to excessively light pellets.

    - An operating pressure of anything between 65 and 75bar is very low for a sub-12 .177; which IME typically work best at 85-100bar depending on barrel length, porting and striker characteristics. IME DS are guilty of using insufficiently small / restrictive ports in their regged guns (which would favour an even higher operating pressure) however I've not checked that in the HR. The flip side is that the slingshot striker tends to flatten out the gun's native velocity curve (and thus minimise the criticality of reg output pressure, within reason) however my gut tells me that (if the gauge is to be believed) the reg output is set far too low.


    From your second image of results

    - Note how between your tests last month and the most recent ones the reg output has *apparently* fallen from 95 to 65bar at 220bar input. Given that the velocity figures for each are very similar I find these gauge readings extremely suspect as in a regged gun such a change in output pressure should have a massive effect on velocity; which leads me to suspect the gauge is dicky. Added to this DS are known for using cheap Chinese gauges; which may further question their accuracy and repeatability.



    Depending on how practical / willing / tool-blessed you are, my first test would be to depressurise the gun, remove the post-reg gauge and fit a decent digital gauge with a hose and restrictor, then repeat the velocity tests with weight-sorted pellets noting the output behaviour of the reg on each shot and take it from there. I appreciate that you're unlikely to have the bits to hand necessary to achieve this, but can think of few alternatives. I wouldn't be so eager to re-seal the reg as I'm doubtful that this is the cause of the issue.. is the gun still within warranty?

    While far from conclusive, if I had to make a judgement call based on the available evidence I'd say the reg is fine (and possibly set to an actual 95bar or thereabouts, as this is a pretty realistic value if the porting isn't minute) and the gauge is at fault. As above if the gun is within warranty it might be worth speaking to DS about the gauge variations and (once re-tested with weighed pellets) the excessive muzzle energy, although you might want to manage your expectations about how much of a Censored they'll give.


    HTH - good luck getting it sorted ;)
     
    Al Stevens, AceSuper14U and sagalout like this.
  14. AceSuper14U

    AceSuper14U KentishSniper

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    @cloverleaf wow thank you so much for your valued and detailed analysis it is very much appreciated. As mentioned my knowledge of PCP's is very limited. I am limited in what I am able to do. I feel comfortable in giving the reg a full service to start with and as I've already purchased the kit and it's cheap. I'm certain its never had a service before so would be good to do anyhow after 2 years. If it fixes the issue then great, if not then i'll delve deeper...The good thing is that thankfully the accuracy is VERY good and consistent even when the Huma gauge reads low (or high)!. I am able to hit 10mm spinners and 10mm bell holes on the range at 50 yards using 1.3 mil dot hold over every time (no wind permitting of course). There could be another possible scenario that could indicate that the Huma gauge is reading duff and the high variation in FPS and that is the Chronograph that i'm using....ACETECH AC6000BT ? although I have had good results from this when testing my spring rifles and AA S410 which recorded only 6 fps when last tested a couple of months ago so could doublt this. Nb. I am and have been testing using JSB Heavies 10.43 although not weighed or sorted so could also be a culprit for the velocity variation. If I need to reduce the 'energy' how best is this achieved on my DS HR? Best regards, John.
     
  15. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    21,226
    Likes Received:
    28,424
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    No worries :)

    tbh (while of course it's entirely your call) I'd strongly advise you leave the reg alone unless you're sure it's giving issues as they can be finnicky and potentially require a setup once they've been stripped as it's often not as simple as putting everything back where you found it with new seals. None of the issues you describe smack of failed seals or creep so I think re-sealing the reg risks a lot for little potential reward.

    I'm not familiar with the chrono but again the consistency figures for the DS are largely in keeping with my experiences; as are those or the S410 you mention which tend to be a lot more consistant.

    Muzzle energy will be adjusted on the striker, but discussion of muzzle energy on the open forum is prohibited and tbh it's been a while since I've had one to bits and can't remember the process exactly. In addition this would require the anti-tamper rubbish removing, for which you'll need a corresponding tool (if you can source one).

    Again if it's under warranty (I beleive DS's warranties are three years..?) it might be worth sending it back - ultimately it should be right from the factory and not up to you to sort it.
     
    Al Stevens likes this.
  16. AceSuper14U

    AceSuper14U KentishSniper

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    @cloverleaf...FYI just been shooting at a range all evening trying out new pellets in her the QYS Streamline heavies 9.56 grain and what a pellet!! half 5p size group at 35 yards, I chrono checked them before I left and it’s recording avg. 729 FPS (11.3 flb) :). The Huma Reg gauge was reading 55 bar on full 220 bar fill before I left and whilst there I filled twice and it’s now reading 50 bar and main has 180 bar left but still shooting accurate and spot on!! Is my gauge knackered or the Reg??? Cheers John.
     
  17. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

    Messages:
    21,226
    Likes Received:
    28,424
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Good stuff. I can't believe the gauge is accurate considering the gun has given such consistant output over a pressure range of seemingly 50-95 bar, which I'd expect to give a marked change in performance. Just a thought but have you checked to ensure that the scale isn't moving on the gauge? Might be worth a small pen mark or bit of tape on the face to rule it out.

    If it keeps going this way eventually it'll read zero, then if the gun's still working you'll know it's the gauge :p
     
  18. AceSuper14U

    AceSuper14U KentishSniper

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    Lol yeah that’s what I hope Huma gauge to read zero and still shoot like a demon on hot bricks :D. I haven’t checked the scale on the gauge so good shout I’ll tape it now and check again after another few hundred pellets thanks didn’t check that :thumb:
     
  19. AceSuper14U

    AceSuper14U KentishSniper

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Ashford, Kent
    UPDATE:
    Problem fixed. With the advice of both Daystate, Huma and @cloverleaf they recommended I change the gauge first so I drained down the air and replaced the Huma gauge with one from Best Fittings. Hey presto, Reg pressure reading a smidge over 100 bar, been testing it now for a couple of weeks and it’s been 100% accurate and reading the same until the main gauge goes to about 100 bar :) then it drops in line with the main pressure so spot on.
    Regards to the original Huma gauge when the air was drained it was reading off the scale at I guess -40, should have I guess with no air be reading 0 bar! Duff and in the bin.
    Thanks everyone for your help.
    BR’s John.
     
    cloverleaf, sagalout and jps norton like this.
  20. sagalout

    sagalout What a plinker!

    Messages:
    6,265
    Likes Received:
    8,715
    Location:
    Ross on Wye, Herefordshire
    Happy days!
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice