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How Do You Train Your Dog's?

Discussion in 'General chit chat' started by SamG340, Jul 28, 2020.

  1. SamG340

    SamG340 Engaging Member

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    Dog owners out there, how do you train your dogs?

    Weve had dogs all my life, staffs/poodles/spaniels/gsds/labs/jack Russells loads more

    We use to train the old fashioned way, with a firm hand, always had trouble and stress with them, trying to force them to behave, a couple of years ago we found a dog trainer online ( Stonnie Dennis well worth a watch! https://m.youtube.com/user/StonnieDennis ) we thought we'd try it his way, all positive, lots of treats, bad behaviour gently discouraged. We haven't raise our voice to the them since then, now they're like brand new dogs, they're calmer and more settled, but more importantly much better behaved!

    One thing he said that really hit home for me is what's the point in having a guard dog that flinches when you raise a hand to it, or backs down when you shout?

    Anyway that's just my take on it. Wondered what you lot think ?
     
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  2. Rob-GB

    Rob-GB Posting Addict

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    A gentle hand and voice will get you further with animals than shouting or using a rolled up newspaper to whack them with. I've seen people do it and had rows with them in the past. I am no dog whisperer but the two I had were well behaved and loyal friends.
     
  3. HairyHobbit

    HairyHobbit Engaging Member

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    Nothing wrong with a stern word. The dog picks up the tone, but a shout is interpreted as a bark and is often counterproductive - the dog can just bark back.

    Lots of treats.

    Our last dog, my 5th Border Collie was pretty easy to train - intelligent dogs. When she was out of shouting distance she would come back on a good whistle. Unfortunately Mrs Hobbit can't whistle. So I trained the dog to come back if she saw an arm straight out from the side of the body. Originally the hand would have a treat in it but I slowly tailed off the treat thing, occasionally there'd be one just to reinforce things.

    And although she was one of the softest Borders I had, I taught her to go for anyone that raised a hand to Mrs Hobbit. Again, it was done using the treat method, only this time it was Mrs Hobbit that gave the treat, followed by me. Came in very handy twice.

    The stick method gives the dogs a hang up, as you said. Same with jerking the lead. If a dog pulls, just stop walking. When the dog walks well, praise it and give it a treat. The dog soon learns that walking well = treat.
     
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  4. SamG340

    SamG340 Engaging Member

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    It's good to have a dog you can rely on. Looking back on it I think the harsh training made the dog rebel against us rather than comply, breed does make a huge difference, our shepherds are great dogs really trainable but they're no good as lapdogs, best you get is 5 minutes fuss from them, I guess it's horses for courses
     
  5. Arrizabalaga

    Arrizabalaga Forum Poet

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    Dogs don't know and can't be taught right and wrong, they only understand what is good and bad to them. You have to associate right with good, and wrong with bad. As an example from years ago, one of my spaniels thought it was good to raid the swing bin in the kitchen, lots interesting smells and the odd scrap of food in there. Obviously he got told off when I caught him, so getting caught raiding the bin was bad. He quickly learned to raid the bin when no one was around (because raiding the bin was still good). My solution was to balance a small beaker of water on the bin. The next time he stuck his head in bin the water falling on his head scared him half to death, I heard him yelp from upstairs. I only needed to refill and replace the beaker twice before he decided that raiding the bin was bad and didn't do it again.
     
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  6. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    Operant conditioning (YouTube stars Stonnie Dennis and Robert Cabral both use it (most good trainers do))

    I've trained both protection dogs and pets using this method -I don't like traditional methods that are based on forced compliance, dogs are like kids, they will do far more for positive reinforcement (love) than they will under threat

    The best feeling in the world is when you and the dog connect and the only difficulty is your own ability to communicate exactly what you want from the dog

    FWIW I started learning to train dogs in the 1960s, my Dad bred/trained working GSDs when I was a kid, having said that I am proud to have left the negative techniques (such as flanking etc) where they belong -in history

    My current bitch (who has never had a choke chain/pinch collar used on her, nor will she) is trained to be autonomous ...

    ... She decides when things have gone too far and will act independently ...

    ... For instance if I was knocked unconscious by a mugger, it wouldn't slow her down, in fact the exact opposite, I'd feel sorry for the assailant as I would tend to call for the release some time before she'd decided they'd had enough (she likes to be sure ;) )..

    She's not quite the finished article but getting very close now (her tracking needs improvement and she could be better at ring obedience but that isn't a priority to me as I don't intend titling her) ...

    Ring sport dogs tend to follow the patterns of the discipline they do KNPV/Schutzhund/Belgian/French etc, I'd prefer my dog to think on her feet so to speak, rather than following set patterns of behaviour dictated by the sport

    I'd recommend K9 Behaviour Basics by Ressi Gerritson, Ruud Haak and Simon Prins (published by Brush Education ISBN 9781550594515 ) as a good read that will give you massive insight in to how to get the best from a dog, and more importantly how to read dogs, THE most important skill when it comes to training (saves getting too many tooth hugs along the way :D )

    HTH

    FWIW If you have never owned/trained a working line dog before you should think very carefully before getting one as they are a LOT harder and sharper than the pet lines (and cost a lot more too, I have seen trained dogs going for $75K*** and more, I've seen dogs in the UK going for $50K+ and a good pup could cost cost you £2.5K or more), and they are realistically a ten to fifteen year investment of your time and energy (for a Malinois/Dutch Shepherd) if you are considering getting a GSD they don't live as long as Mals/Dutchys and ideally you want to be looking at a former Eastern Bloc line as they don't suffer the health problems that beset the Western lines but you will pay a LOT of money for a good square, solid working line GSD from Russia/Serbia/Czech Republic etc

    *** ...

    *** Now so have you :p

    Sorry this post is long but you did ask ;)

    Be well :thumb:
     
  7. Missed_Again

    Missed_Again Member

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    Agree, it's an outdated and old fashioned method that doesn't yield results (efficiently anyway) and simply makes life grim for the dog.

    People also still hang on to the 'alpha' idea a lot too which was shown to be down to poor research watching captive wolves that weren't from the same pack etc. Even the guy that did the research soon admitted it was flawed but by the then people had hung onto the idea and were trying to dominate their dogs in an attempt to be the alpha.

    The best I've seen it described is in a pack the lead dogs are seen as 'benevolent leaders'.
     
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  8. jega

    jega Well-Known Member

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    Make it fun ,ever watched the t.v. programmes about customs ,police etc where they use trained dogs ? always a toy ,tennis ball or the like and lots of praise and fuss when they find whatever they are looking for .
     
    Hans Free likes this.
  9. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    Old school works, but it is cruel (I'm not in favour of cruelty for dogs or humans or anything else)

    I had a half dozen pairs of jeans shredded from the knees down from when my best friend was a pup, also my fore-arms are covered in lots of little white scars from puppy mouthing (something that you are going to have to learn to live with with a working line dog until you manage to persuade them that it's not a good idea to chew your friends (usually after a few months of accumulating the needle scratches that a good pup will tend to leave you with)

    Here's a a video of what pups are like ...



    I'll be breeding my bitch in another couple of years (and expect like every other time I've had working line puppies about me to be at least a partial "nutritional supplement") :D

    The most important thing (again, IMO of course) is to imprint your dog with a toy or ball/whatever as a lever to guide their behaviours (luring etc) without it you'll have a lot more trouble getting a release when the dog is in high drive for instance

    Dogs are called "Man's Best Friend" for good reason

    PATIENCE, LOVE and UNDERSTANDING, (in that order, and all capitalised because they are SO important) are the three basic requirements the rest is experience and knowing how to read the dog :up:

    Have to say (again and again) pet dogs are far easier to train than strong independent highly driven/motivated working dogs ;)

    FWIW I really miss the little round-headed, floppy-eared creatures you start with (it doesn't last long and then the hard work really starts)

    Be well :thumb:
     
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  10. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    It's called "imprinting" (the imprinted object works just as well as food, but I do use food/treats too) ;)

    HTH :up:
     
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  11. SamG340

    SamG340 Engaging Member

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    No problem mate really enjoyed reading, glad to see there's like minded people out there. Got any videos of your bitch working?

    Our Tessa ( first ever gsd) is from German schh lines, tonnes of schh3 and VA1 in her pedigree (the seller told us she had a good pedigree, didn't know quiet how good until a lot later on) Fantastic dog, straight back, high drive, she'd put holes in anyone. Bit of a handful! Her two puppy's are the same, they've inherented her switch, teddy bear one second, lion the next and then straight back to teddy.

    Speaking about "ALPHA" . We knew a saint Bernard breeder who believed you have to dominate your dog, asked him where he got the massive scare on his arm turns out it was from one of his dogs, imagine how far you have to push a st Bernard before it gave you a "tooth hug" :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  12. SamG340

    SamG340 Engaging Member

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    images (2).jpeg

    Ever done much research on DDR German shepherds? I hear great things
     
  13. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    'Fraid not I'm not a Youtuber and she's never going to be for sale ;)

    He got bitten because he is cruel (end of story for me)

    There's a huge difference between puppy-mouthing and getting bitten (the pup may try and dominate you at some stage and the thing to do (for me at least) is let them give it MAXIMUM and laugh at them (they end up believing they can't hurt Dad even when grown (which seems quite odd to me, but it also seems to work :D )

    It's all a game -and it's big-fun -its what they were bred for ;)


    Be well :thumb:
     
  14. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    You are talking about former Eastern-Bloc dogs -I mentioned them in an earlier post (the first I believe) ;)
     
  15. SamG340

    SamG340 Engaging Member

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    Ha there you go! I met one once, what a dog! I think I'm right in saying they don't get their guard instinct until they're mature, the owner was annoyed because he wouldn't guard but he was only 1 1/2, he didn't know much about him I guess just bought him because he looked cool, still put the hairs up on the back of my neck when he looked through me.
     
  16. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    My baby would make some people urinate themselves when she's on her hind legs explaining (in Dutch) what she is going to do to them if they don't leave her Dad alone, we haven't had an occasion where she needed to do-the-do yet but I had a drunk bothering me a couple of months ago and he changed his mind very quickly indeed when she explained (even drunks don't want to dance with large dog)

    For me the deterrent is better than having to hurt anyone

    But having said that, if they don't listen it will hurt
     
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  17. ajohn

    ajohn Engaging Member

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    Our GSD is a Czech ;) essentially. Pedigree is defence and agility. She responds very well to praise but not so well in terms of preventing her bad habits. The only one really is too much barking when the door bell etc rings or if something unusual is going on next door but quiet usually works then. Not on the front door though. When I come back from answering it she has usually hid in an adjoining room - probably because we tried out for a whiles and still do at times. Sometimes she does stay reasonably quiet so lots of praise but it never lasts. ;) After 3 years it indicates I am getting somewhere - maybe.

    She has gone into kennels a couple of times. Interesting. No problems at all unless they talk to her ;) so they don't.
     
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  18. Autodidact

    Autodidact Thought Criminal

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    GSDs are very emotionally driven (not as much as Malinois) but if I insult my best friend she can sulk and be moody for hours, sometimes a day or so -I've explained time and time again I'm only kidding but she still takes it to heart :D

    ETA: Trying a "switch it on and switch it off" routine might work for you, use your "speak" command then the "quiet" command while there's nobody about, and rinse and repeat until you can switch it off and on as you desire

    I like the dog to bark when someone approaches the building it tells them the dog is there and me that they are approaching ;)

    HTH
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  19. SamG340

    SamG340 Engaging Member

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    That's something that surprised us when we first got a shepherd, they're real babys. Takes a lot to stop ours barking when there's a knock on the door .. takes a lot to stop them barking all day none stop 24/7 :mao:
     
  20. Rob-GB

    Rob-GB Posting Addict

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    A pub I used to visit at lunchtime in Milton Keynes had a Great Dane that was as soft as could be, a dream of a dog. Then one night some numpty broke in and was pinned against the wall by her front paws on his shoulders. The owner heard the commotion and calmly said don't move I am calling the police. We fed her some treats after learning about that. A well adjusted dog that had her families back. Makes me smile remembering her and the way she used to nudge you for a bit of a fuss.:D
     
    Autodidact likes this.

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