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Hitting A Break Wall With Sharpening ...

Discussion in 'Knives & Tools' started by AlbertMundial, Mar 29, 2021.

  1. AlbertMundial

    AlbertMundial Newbie

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    I'm posting in general chat here. Feel free to move it if it is belong here.

    I do apologise in advance for a long post. I found this article on the knife set and purchased three sets of knife with a wooden holder for it. I decided not to proceed with Japanese knifes to do price factor.

    So I've landed with brand Mundial. It is made in Brazil and it is stainless steel 5110-8 (NSF). Not sure what the numbers means. Partner was very happy it until few weeks ago. She mentioned that the knife is not cutting well.

    On ebay i found Professional Chef Knife Sharpener. As per picture below.
    my-knife-sharpener.png

    This sharpener comes with 4 stones.
    So I took the lowest one 140 grit. Marked the edge of the knife with black marker. Then i adjusted the sharpener so the stone sharpened the existing edge.
    Then i changed the stone to 600 grit. repeated process over again.

    Guess what the knife is still dull. I can't slice the tomato with it. It is just squashing it:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
    I repeated process once again and can't get to the purchase level.

    My 140 grit stone is almost gone. On youtube, i can see everyone is using a sanding paper belt. i don't have that luxury. So I glued the sending paper to the flat wooden stick so it holds in my tool. So i tried with it.

    Didn't work either. So I though ok. Global is Japanese brand and I should be able to sharpen with their tool. So i purchase another sharpener 2 Stage Japanese MinoSharp Ceramic Water Sharpener, still no luck.

    I am going crazy with it. How hard it is to sharpen the knife, so it slices tomato without squashing. What am I doing wrong ?

    Any direction is much appreciated.
     
  2. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    The best I can think of is that you're only abrading the bevelled edge of the blade where it tapers to the edge, not the cutting edge itself yet (because the existing edge is cut at a steeper angle to the setting you're using) - but in this case this should be apparant from residual marker pen left at the edge.

    You want to work from the cutting edge towards the blade to minimise burring. Also you'll get the sharpest edge by stropping on leather / card after you've sharpened it. Finally, there's no way that 140 grit stone should have worn out yet; so that sounds decidedly sub-par.

    FWIW I have a lansky system which is like a smaller version of the guided setup pictured above (because I can't sharpen knives freehand for toffee); it won't do large stuff and takes a while but gets the blade on my pocket knives shaving-sharp, so I see no reason why the gear you've got shouldn't work (unless the stones are crap and not actually removing much / any material) - how is the edge looking - can you see that the stones are taking steel off?
     
    Lukeypoodle and AlbertMundial like this.
  3. rizla1

    rizla1 hi

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    When it comes to sharpening a knife its all about getting the angles right,
    I always sharpen my knives with a wet stone first then a stropping board,
    Never used the one you got but they are made to sharpen knives so not sure whats going wrong there,
    All i can recommend is try some differant angles
     
  4. papaver

    papaver Posting Addict

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    Many people often use too much force when sharpening. As a rough guide you don't want to press any harder than the weight of the knife itself if sharpening freehand or with the weight of the stone if using the type of knife sharpener pictured in the first post.

    That's how I get best results but obviously as different knives weigh different amounts it's a very rough guide. Often a beginner's mistake is putting too much weight on the blade though. Less is more and take your time especially towards the end of the process.

    Consistent angle is of course critical too.
     
  5. Colesy

    Colesy Engaging Member

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    All down to the angles. You can sharpen with wet and dry paper on a flat surface...take your pick of the sharpening stones bit if your not getting the angle right for that blade then changing the type of stone or abrasive isn't going to help.
    Cheers
    Chris.
     
    papaver likes this.
  6. Cammie1314

    Cammie1314 Doric spikkin teuchter

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    Consistent angle is crucial. Ease up on the pressure and feel for the burr.
     
  7. wezil

    wezil Keyboard Hero

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    Hi a knife should have a "rough" edge to cut tomatoes a truly smooth sharp one just squashes them. My advice is to use a Corser stone for the one your going to slice them with so it leaves a "toothy" edge. Took me a long time to explain this to my Mrs:eek:. (surely not) And I can recommend getting the hang of hand sharpening on a stone, that way you can sharpen them anywhere on anything hard (I use the edge of my car window if im out for a quick touch up).(DO NOT let people see you do this):D For a consistent angle fold a piece of paper in half at 45% then keep doing it you'll end up some where near 10-15%, transfer this to a bit of cardboard then use this to set your knife on the stone, eventually it will become second nature. Good luck
     
    papaver and AlbertMundial like this.
  8. Tadpole

    Tadpole Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Just waiting for the sales pitch .. :facepalm:
     
    Gary Jones and Bunyip like this.
  9. Bladesmith

    Bladesmith Big Poster

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    Like someone said above you probably are getting a nice edge but the micro bur needs to be stropped off try it if you haven’t got a strop the the back of a leather belt will do for a test
     
    rizla1 likes this.
  10. AlbertMundial

    AlbertMundial Newbie

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    Thank you all for help. I always thought that I need apply the pressure to sharpen it, based on the reply it looks like pressure is not necessary in this process.
    I never heard of stropping board either. I just want to get to the factory level at least.
    @wezil Thank you for detailed explanation. Learn something everyday.
     
    papaver and cloverleaf like this.
  11. Stevie Darling

    Stevie Darling Sexual tyrannosaurus

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    I sometimes think people over complicate it. As a fishmonger and butcher, all I ever had was an old sharpening stone that was concave with use, and a ceramic steel.

    It’s just angles and practice:)

    I also didn’t like a razor sharp edge, I preferred an edge with a bit of bite as it was easier to control the cut:)
     
  12. PolzeyLad

    PolzeyLad Keyboard Hero

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    I had similar on a decent knife but sharpening at the wrong angle; it was really annoying. Then I realised it was 15 not 20 degrees and soon had it sharp.
    I was asked to sharpen a few friends knives (happens often) and was utterly defeated by one; the hateful thing was just useless. Got it sharpish but way off what I wanted. I finally gave up!
    My Manly Wasps are so sharp, I can cut cherry tomatoes into loads of very thin slices. Anything else I have (including our best kitchen knife) just squishes them. Most satisfying.
     
  13. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Yeah, I absolutely love the feeling of using efficient, capable tools for the job. My little Spyderco frequently comes out in the kitchen to cut garlic, broccoli etc as it's (sometimes!) razor sharp and so controllable on smaller jobs :)
     
    PolzeyLad likes this.
  14. jaisalmere

    jaisalmere Ladies like my Long Covid………

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    I am no expert knife sharpener but in order to get to know if you have the angle right, draw a line of marker pen along the angle you want to grind, when the marker pen disappears, you are grinding in the right place, give Ray Mears a look on y tube, he just tells you how to do it without all the show nonsense.
     
  15. DanBC

    DanBC Busy Member

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    @jaisalmere is correct about Ray Mears. Learnt a lot from that man.

    In a previous life I was a toolmaker. Made knives. As you do.
    Practice. Practice and learn.
    Satisfying when you get it.

    As said, ink is very useful to see where and how you are removing metal.
    As with everything, the devil, is in the detail.

    Personally I sharpen by hand using a Japanese wetstone.
    Not for everything you understand, but my bush knives etc
    I also use it to put the correct edge on my kitchen knives then use a carbide V to keep the day to day edge.
     
    jaisalmere likes this.

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