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Scopes Hawke vs mtc vs nikon

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by tomsteebs, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    right then, thought i'd do a simple (amateur) side by side test of 3 popular brands glass quality.

    simple as this;

    3 scopes, all set to 6x magnification, all pointing in the same direction, all focused the same.

    you decide what you think is best. (ignore the cloudy part on the base of the nikon photo, it's just camera angle and the camera would not focus on the hawke reticle)
    the chimney is about 45yards away, the leaves are about 20yards away.

    personally i think the nikon was the best by quite a bit ( especially considering its a 40mm he clarity and field of view is very good) with the hawke not too far behind (but this is a 50mm and the glass has imperfections)
    suprised by how poor the mtc is.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  2. scoie

    scoie Busy Member

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    good comparison, ive always struggled with MTC to honest , have 2 x hawkes , airmax and panorama on my air rifles and like them a lot, on my other pcp ive a prostaff 3-9x50 and all my rimmies and centrefire have Nikons , 2x monarchs and 1x bushmaster , for value for money and glass quality they are unbeatable, I also have a zeiss conquest and for the difference in price , its not comparable to the price difference
    craig
     
  3. audiguypaul

    audiguypaul Donator

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    Interesting but wouldnt it be better using a maybe a mamba as the connect has a much wider fov so isnt really comparing like for like, imho of course.
     
  4. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    well yes, but image clarity is still viewable ;)
    im not comparing like for like spec'd scopes just 3 different types of glass which fov isn't really imo important to judge this, i just commented on fov with the hawke and nikon because they have basically the same field of view but are not the same lense size....
     
  5. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

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    How are you lining up the camera to the scope? has to be perfect each time,ideally some kind of mount system like the Deben
     
  6. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    i have seben but its easier with just tripods or by hand when using a fujifilm hs10 ;)
     
  7. Mike_H

    Mike_H Donator

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    Just a question but as they are all at 6x mag shouldn't the chimneys all be the same size to compare the sight view properly. I understand that the MTC has a larger field of view so that when the chimney appears to be the same size as the other two the MTC picture would be bigger in diameter.

    Or or am I missing something?
     
  8. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    i know what your saying, and i assumed that equal magnification would equal, = object size, and then fov would simply mean a wider overall image.
    i can assure you they were all on 6x mag, but whether this is accurate is a whole new ball game ;D

    the nikon and hawke are basically the same magnification by looking at the photo.

    im sure cloverleaf, accupell, terry etc... will know ;)

    it could be to do with eye relief.....or distance between eye and objective lense.... or even that mtc think 3x mag is the same as 6x mag and lie ;) hawke did this with the ev technology when it came out and did a video which was simply zoomed out ;)

    unless this is just how wider fov scopes work? which would seem illogical and fake
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  9. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    An interesting comparison - ta for sharing ;)

    I have a few thoughts:

    1) Was this shot on full manual? If not it's possible that different camera settings are affecting the images (aperture, shutter speed, ISO, colour balance)
    2) The FOV isn't related to the objective diameter - this controls the depth of field and light transmission, so is analogous to the aperture on a camera lens.

    To me it looks like the Nikon gives the best contrast and similar colour rendition to the hawke, which is better in both regards than the MTC. Sharpness looks comparable between all three, but then the MTC image has been cropped less than the other two I assume..

    Looking at the MTC shot, it appears over-exposed compared to the other two; which might explain the "washed out" effect to a point. Worth looking at the image EXIF for camera settings for each shot?

    lol - I'll have a stab!

    I think the issue is that all the posted images have been resized to the same diameter, despite their different FOVs. Assuming the mag settings are reasonably accurate, a fairer comparison would probably be to resize them all so that the chimney was the same size in all three :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  10. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    i shot it on semi-auto in the end, i tried doing it on manual so all settings stayed the same but it simply wasn't working very well as my camera seems to like over exposure even on the lowest setting when on manual.

    but, im happy that the images are relatively accurate, as the mtc was actually almost that bad!

    with regards to cropping, the images were all cropped to give about the same ocular lense boarder.
    the mtc would have been less cropped due to close eye relief. so yes this would effect the relative size of say the chimney as the images are the same size, but when looking with your eye that image would be about twice the size?

    i did this purely as a quick glass quality test. which i think it has proven what i can see by my eye.

    im honestly surprised by the mtc's performance, the depth of view of these though is outstanding though!

    mamba's and vipers are better, but i wouldn't say they are better than hawkes sorry to say. nikon for me are the go to glass for the money.... i may buy a vortex diamondback and compare aswell....
     
  11. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Cool - I thought it probably wasn't done in manual. Obviously for a more valid comparison it's best to keep all the settings the same if you can; however you have to work with what you've got :)


    Absolutely as it should be and I suspect as it appears when actually looking through the 'scopes, although you might not notice it so much as when the images are posted next to each other.


    Yeah, to be fair while innovative, apparently good value and covered in twiddly bits, I don't think most MTCs have comparable build quality to the Hawkes, and I suspect the lenses might leave a bit to be desired, too - although given how different the connect it to the others I don't necessarily think it's fair to compare the two - as previously mentioned something like a Mamba lite would probably have been more appropriate.

    I agree about the glass in the Nikon - I use Hawke though as I much prefer the versility of the 1/2 Mil Dot ret; IMO a fair trade for the better quality of the Nikon glass :)
     
  12. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    i agree the viper connect is quite different, but i assumed the glass was the same.... and i dont have any mamba currently

    i will do another one and try to use manual mode, but why the exposure is too much when only on 100 instead of 6400 is confusing.
    i am not keen on hawke, only the reticles are what draw me to them :(, but im moving all over to glass over features for scopes. will probably be using 2 nikon efr's and either a diamondback or a bushnell legend....
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  13. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

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    NIKON for me Tom you got the order right first time.

    But after selling the Nikon to you I bought a panorama 3-9x50 and although I liked it it wasn't as easy to use as the Nikon, so I sold it virtually unused.

    Ive had a few MTC vipers and had a few hawkes passed through my hands, but I will say my mate bought a BSA S10 recently and his has a MTC mamba on it and for some reason it is loads brighter sharper and crisper than any MTC Ive had, seems they vary and I once had a champion HFT shooter he noticed the same, he had one MTC he trusted more than his Leupold but others he sold on.

    What you will always get is Better eye relief with Nikons and Bushnells than any other cheapers stuff, I think MTC eye relief can be very fussy on the majority and Hawke much better but fussy PX.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  14. Shooter22

    Shooter22 Donator

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    Hi,

    Posted on another forum about the MTC connects asking for peoples opinion as I was looking to purchase one.
    Anyway went to a local gun shop to have a look through and have got to say what a pile of sh**e, that goes for all the MTC range, not a patch on the Hawkes as regards vfm.
    The Nikon in the photos look the best for me though.
     
  15. secretagentmole

    secretagentmole Low down, dirty and quiet...

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    Of course on that other forum if you say you have had a problem with an MTC they are all over you like a rash getting you to belt up because the company owner has an account on it! I do not like MTC scopes, the wife did, I don't, always found Hawkes worked better for me!
     
  16. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    they are not all bad, the panorama's i have found also suffer for qc, some mtc's are very good some hawkes are very good, but also you have bad ones, a bad nikon would be a good hawke/mtc....

    but i do agree with you in the main in terms of glass quality
     
  17. Jonnyovy

    Jonnyovy Very Active

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    Personal opinion, i think hawke are utter ********, they just don't work with me at all and i would put mtc above them every time. Ive had most scopes sub £350 and for me the mtc mamba lite 4-16-44 has worked out the best, hence me having around 9 or 10 over the last few years.
     
  18. secretagentmole

    secretagentmole Low down, dirty and quiet...

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    Whereas our experience was the opposite, only one good MTC and the rest were absolute fertilizer, whiting out at the merest hint of sunshine! But scope choice is like gun choice, purely individual! Hawkes work best for my eyes!
     
  19. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    This I simply don't understand. If you get a good scope, why get rid of it? Surely you keep it and put it on the next rifle.

    Tom - I know what you were trying to illustrate, now go and repeat that exercise twice more:

    1. With the sun just grazing across the front of the objective lens - not in view, just looking into the light a bit as if you were roosting with the sun going down.

    2. After sunset.....leave all three where they are and keep checking which you can still see to shoot with as time ticks by. Tell us which one you can see to shoot with the longest. You could stick a pigeon decoy in a tree or something as a target to view. Oh and time how much longer the two remaining scopes can view the target to get a shot,so you need to start the timer when the first one gives up and grains out. Note the extra time you get with the middle one, and then the extra time the last man standing gives.

    I know what the result will be - but you go and try it.:D
     
  20. tomsteebs

    tomsteebs Donator

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    Yes I should do that really, this was simply a 15min test which I think illustrates correctly what I can see at that time of day in those conditions (when most probably shoot).

    I'll soon have 4 scopes but unfortunately the Hawke will be going anyday to be replaced and the mtc I'm undecided on as other than poor glass, it is a handy scope, but I don't know whether that warrants its price tag for my intended use of it being on a .177 (all my .22 scopes have/will have no aimpoints) I think it's further back mounting is a big advantage for balance so it may stay
     

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