1. The Forum Rules have undergone some minor changes and updates.  Please take the time to read them; it will only take a couple of minutes of your time. By doing so, you lessen the chance of incurring the wrath of the moderation team or making yourself look foolish to other members.

    90% of users posting adverts in the Sales forums need to be reminded to read the rules as their posts are wrong.  This is unnecessarily time-consuming and will no longer happen - if your advert doesn't follow the Sales Rules it will be deleted and you'll have to start all over again.

    To close this box once you've read it (and the Rules), click on the X in the top right-hand corner.

    Thank you.

    AGF Staff



    Dismiss Notice
  2. A reminder of one of the Forum Rules:

    'Behaviour

    Do not make inappropriate or offensive posts - including threats, harassment, swearing, prejudice, defamation, deliberate insults or name-calling, other negative remarks about this forum, its moderators and administrators or your fellow members. Even if this is just your own personal opinion, RESPECT YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS.'

    There have been changes made to our censoring software in an attempt to help with this growing problem.

    Click the X in the top-right-hand corner to dismiss this notice.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Dear members,

    Our membership (like our country) consists of people from all walks of life; different in far more ways than can be listed here and each with a different view based on their experience of life - regardless of their colour, religion or cultural heritage. Every single person in the UK has been born of mixed race – we are a multi-coloured and multi-cultural country.

    As many of you are aware there are a handful of individuals amongst this membership that persist in making provocative, inflammatory, racist and otherwise offensive comments. This has been happening across the forum to a certain degree but is most especially prevalent in the Adult section.

    The moderation team has tried to stay on top of this, however unfortunately because of the ‘offensive’ nature of much of its content we don’t monitor the Adult section quite as much as perhaps we should. As a result much of this behaviour has gone unnoticed unless it has been reported to us. While the team always intended to take a "light touch" approach to the Adult section it would seem that some people aren’t quite adult enough to be left unmonitored after all.

    This behaviour is, and always has been against Forum Rules as well as the specific stipulations of the Adults forum and it will no longer be tolerated. We feel it's time to draw a line in the sand and as such from this point onward offenders will receive an immediate and permanent ban from the forum.

    In order for us to achieve our goal of restoring the forum to the friendly and tolerant place it once was, we ask that ALL members be mindful of the content they post and help us to stop unacceptable behaviour by using the 'Report' tool at the bottom of any offending post - the results of which can be seen only by Admin/Moderators.

    You should all receive a copy of this message by PM. 

    To close this message box, click on the 'X' in the top-right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice
  4. PLEASE READ
    You are breaking the forum rules if there is no comment on a sales or wanted thread by either the buyer or seller. 
    Or regarding to members manufacturing things stating something is going to be discussed and initiated through pm.
    I.e. 
    A buyer in manufactured section hi I’m interested in some work by you pm incoming.
    Or seller in a wanted add, hi I can do that for you pm incoming regarding it.
    Or a normal sale, hi I want to buy your item
    If a manufacturer gets asked privately about a sale they should say to the prospective buyer please comment on my thread to adhere to forum rules.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Hotmail block emails from us entering your inbox. Unless you can setup a safe sender you will not get activation emails from the forum. Please use an alternative provider or complain to Hotmail.
    Hotmail addresses include.

    @Hotmail.co.uk @Hotmail.com @outlook.com @Live.com
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Postings on Politics, Religion & Controversial Off-Topic Material

    The majority of users do not want to read about these subjects and people have left the forum as a result of it – this is after all an 'Airgun' Forum. It’s all very well to say they don’t have to read it if they don't want to, but as most of us use the ‘New Posts’ button there is no easy way to avoid it.

    All AGF staff members are in favour of people being able to discuss what they want, but we have to draw the line somewhere if it is upsetting other users. We don’t want to read about these topics either.

    IMPORTANT- The discussion of politics and religion is no longer allowed anywhere on the forum (including the Adult section).  The only exception is if it's airgun related - they must be put in the Airgun Related Politics section..

    We will not tolerate bullying or personal attacks, racism or any other offensive 'isms'. we will remove these topics from the forum, we will not give you an area where you can abuse each other. We will not hesitate to ban offenders.

    To clear this text box, click on the 'X' in the top right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice

Grrrr, Gletcher Nagant

Discussion in 'Replica Airguns' started by Headhunter, Sep 22, 2020.

  1. Headhunter

    Headhunter Never enough shell loading Revolvers

    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    4,135
    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    I was stripping my Gletcher Nagant down getting ready to give it a dose of 'weathering' and I wanted to change out the screws and maybe even negate the safety somehow. Well, long story short, I decided to give it a full strip down and re-lubricate everything......guess what I discovered (@Modski66 - think about the latest DW715 6" pellet revolvers), it's got a reduced length rifled inner barrel ! It's supposed to have a 4 & 1/32" overall length but it's got a section that's rifled that's only 2 17/32" and the rest (1½") is made up with an aluminium 6mm smoothbore airsoft barrel.

    Nagant barrel - 10.jpg Nagant barrel - 2.jpg
    Nagant barrel - 6.jpg
    Above is the 6mm smoothbore section.

    Nagant barrel - 9.jpg
    and this is the rifled section.

    Now, this has happened before with the Dan Wesson 715 6" pellet revolver, going from a full 6" inner rifled barrel to the same as above (2½" of rifled barrel and the rest is 6mm smoothbore). Question is, is this the new standard ? Are we going to see this in all future pellet revolvers ? Where the original released version has a fully rifled inner barrel and then (as a cost cutting exercise) they (the manufacturer) reduce the length of the internal rifling ?

    Interestingly, the manufacturer of the DW715 is 'Wingun' and I suspect that they are the manufacturer of the Nagant for Gletcher too, which would explain a few things. They're mainly a manufacturer of air soft guns and maybe they're not geared up to make rifled inner barrels and have to purchase them from a third party and are just trying to cut costs.

    I'll be interested to hear what other owners think and whether your Nagant is the same as mine.
     
  2. Jimmypie

    Jimmypie Pffft , Pop , Twang , Bang

    Messages:
    14,512
    Likes Received:
    32,059
    Location:
    Gatwick
    Cost cutting which makes perfect sense , seen it myself with the DW pistols which is enough to put me off buying one .
     
  3. CJD

    CJD Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,537
    Likes Received:
    1,861
    Location:
    Bourne
    Yeah, its definitely a thing with the DW barrels.
    I remember my mate finding out a couple of years ago - not very good I'm afraid.
     
  4. Fun Shootin'

    Fun Shootin' .

    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    Location:
    England
    Will it make much difference if you chop the Airsoft bit off? It'd make your barrel look more authentic with the inner barrel being out of sight. Random thought as I don't have the pistol.
     
  5. Modski66

    Modski66 Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Location:
    Nottingham
    The barrels on these pistols are usually recessed at the muzzle end; there is also a spring that pushes the forcing cone back to the cylinder to form a detent and sort of 'seal' for the breech, so it has to be there in some form or other.
    I have replaced the barrel in my 715 with a proper rifled length; I will also replace the valve inner and hammer spring in due course to get some more fps to punch cleaner holes in the target cards.
    Really should not have to contemplate mods like this on a pistol costing nearly £200. :mad:
    Other than that they are brilliant, I think... :confused:
     
    Fun Shootin', Headhunter and Jimmypie like this.
  6. Deleted member 42807

    Deleted member 42807 Keyboard Hero

    Messages:
    2,604
    Likes Received:
    4,463
    Location:
    Co Durham
    Ooops another gun off my wishlist.
     
    Modski66 and Headhunter like this.
  7. Victor Robert Allaway

    Victor Robert Allaway Busy Member

    Messages:
    930
    Likes Received:
    786
    Location:
    Basingstoke
    Yeah, the whole barrel assembly has a spring at the muzzle end so that it slides back to engage with the cylinder. I'm amazed that the "filler" piece is 6mm as most of the propellant charge will escape past the pellet before it reaches the rifling and there's no guarantee that it'll be correctly aligned when it gets there! To be honest my first thought is that they are cutting costs by now using the same rifled front section in all their guns with the (much cheaper) smooth section tailored to each model. It's likely that this also makes those rifled sections considerably cheaper as they can order a much larger quantity of identical parts - extra discount.

    Just wondering where one finds a discarded .177 barrel to cut down to suit? Of course, many donor barrels might need to be skimmed before turning both ends to fit. Crown and lead-in requirements are no different to any other barrel, are they? I'd love rifled barrels for my Remington 1875 and Schofield, but have neither the lathe or the nous. Maybe this signals an opportunity for someone to offer improved, replacement barrels. Of course, if the bearing points were also glided...

    Rob.
     
    Headhunter likes this.
  8. Fun Shootin'

    Fun Shootin' .

    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    Location:
    England
    Luckily you are technically minded. It can turn an otherwise prone to breakage filled hobby into something of a project. Like Trigger's broom in Only Fools & Horses; my Glock has had two magazines, two inner barrels, new seals and pressure chamber (whatever the official term is) and several new springs :D and its as good as the day it was born.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
    Headhunter and Modski66 like this.
  9. Victor Robert Allaway

    Victor Robert Allaway Busy Member

    Messages:
    930
    Likes Received:
    786
    Location:
    Basingstoke
    Yeah, back in the day I worked for BAe and the model makers welcomed anything out of the ordinary as a "homer" to keep their eye in and give them constant new challenges. It was overlooked by management (even if you nicked the raw materials from stock) as the guys could turn out anything on demand to an accuracy you could hardly believe, as a matter of pride. Jobs as straightforward as these would be done in a lunchtime - but you had to earn the brownie points first. Incidentally, my boss caught me sewing up a holster when I was in the middle of inspecting thousands of tiny screws. He took a surprising interest in the process of leather working before saying "I guess you've had enough of looking for burrs on screws? Send them back." Nice man.

    Sadly all my contacts were the old-timers, now long gone, and the whole ethos has changed. I wouldn't mind paying for the machine work, but rather baulk at the prospect of buying a barrel blank and getting shafted for the RFD delivery. Trouble is, to get the job done demands understanding of the application in order to get the optimum performance, so it remains a gunsmithing job unless done by an enthusiastic, understanding amateur.

    Any takers?

    Rob.
     
    Modski66 and Headhunter like this.
  10. Headhunter

    Headhunter Never enough shell loading Revolvers

    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    4,135
    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    Sorted......:)

    After yesterday's revelation about the Nagant I was a 'tad' disappointed to say the least, so I set about rectifying it today with a full length rifled inner barrel replacement. Luckily I had one that was laying around from another old project that lost momentum about 8 months ago. Originally the barrel was from a 6" S&W 686 that I got from a fellow member a few years back.

    After a bit of work, it's now ready to go.....

    new barrel for Nagant.jpg

    The original hybrid barrel is at the bottom of the picture and the newer fully rifled version id above it. I had to cut a detente in the circumference of the barrel for the end of the spring to sit in to stop it from moving, it locks it in really well.

    So I'm off to test the gun over the chronograph, I should hopefully see some power increase over the original barrel. I'll post the results as soon as I get a chance.
     
  11. Victor Robert Allaway

    Victor Robert Allaway Busy Member

    Messages:
    930
    Likes Received:
    786
    Location:
    Basingstoke
    That's excellent! Good job you happened to have a suitable barrel looking for a purpose in life. I feel sure iy should improve the gun's efficiency and probably accuracy too. It can't do anything for power or accuracy having the pellet wobbling down a slack fitting tube with the pressue being lost before it has to engage with the rifling.

    I'l be very interested in its comparative performance with the new barrel.

    Rob.
     
    Modski66 and Headhunter like this.
  12. Headhunter

    Headhunter Never enough shell loading Revolvers

    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    4,135
    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    Just finished chronographing the gun, with the same pellets and same make of CO2 as used for previous testing.

    Originally 330 fps average over a 77 shot string
    Now; 377 fps average over a 77 shot string

    Overall an average increase of 47 fps over the original barrel, consistently shooting in the very high 300's (387 to 399) for the first 30 shots, then dropping down to the 370 mark for the next twenty or so, then dropping down to the 350 fps range to finish.
    In comparison to the previous test results, the first 30 or so shots were consistently shooting +50 fps higher than previously recorded.

    I haven't had a chance to test the accuracy as yet, just had a quick plink with the remaining gas after the test and she was central on target, if just a tad low (but that could of been the gas level more than anything else).
     
  13. Jimmypie

    Jimmypie Pffft , Pop , Twang , Bang

    Messages:
    14,512
    Likes Received:
    32,059
    Location:
    Gatwick
    Great work around !
     
    Modski66 and Headhunter like this.
  14. CaptDAR

    CaptDAR Always count your shots and your adversary’s

    Messages:
    3,611
    Likes Received:
    6,221
    Location:
    Eastern Scottish Borders
    Success :thumb:
     
    Modski66 and Headhunter like this.
  15. Headhunter

    Headhunter Never enough shell loading Revolvers

    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    4,135
    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    Maybe I didn't explain that bit fully, the rifling section is at the cylinder end of the barrel, the 6mm airsoft 'tube' is at the muzzle end.
     
    Modski66 likes this.
  16. Modski66

    Modski66 Posting Addict

    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Nice job there. :thumb:

    I know I have said it elsewhere, but we should not have to do this sort of thing to expensive pistols to get them to the quality we thought we were buying in the first place!

    I did turn it to my advantage though, by recycling the short rifled section from my 715 to convert a 6mm snubbie to a 4.5mm pellet firer. :D
     
    Headhunter and Jimmypie like this.
  17. Headhunter

    Headhunter Never enough shell loading Revolvers

    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    4,135
    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    Yeah, I've got a 2½" rifled barrel that needs a new home now ;)

    Me thinks it's time to scour the secondhand sites for a suitable project gun or I might finally get around to having a go at building a Derringer from scratch, always fancied a Derringer but I suppose I will need two 2½" sections of rifled barrel for that.....damn & blast !!! Well then, Gunstar & Guntrader, here I come, lol :)
     
    Modski66 likes this.
  18. Victor Robert Allaway

    Victor Robert Allaway Busy Member

    Messages:
    930
    Likes Received:
    786
    Location:
    Basingstoke
    Sounds like I got it wrong, but as you say, the rifled barrel fits the snubby which is what you are now getting, in effect, regardless of what barrel you've been told you're buying. An oversize tube does not constitute any part of a barrel and any misalignment will cause a further loss of accuracy as much as a badly formed crown or clipping silencer. What I'm saying (and I'm pretty sure is the same as others have said) you pay for a 6 inch rifled barrel as advertised - what they are now delivering is a 3.5 inch barrel and it will only have the power and accuracy of a 3.5 inch. Sounds like fraud to me...

    Glad to hear that at least two guns have got fixed, but anyone buying a long barrel in the hope it will shoot better is being cheated - it never will. In terms of materials and machining tolerances these replicas are built like toys, not guns - mechanically only slightly better built than the zinc die-cast cap guns you could get in Woolworths when I was a kid, for a week's pocket money. The design, particularly in revolvers, eliminates the need for better quality and fit to achieve acceptable results. Degrading the design for a slight increase in profit without changing the published specification is an insult to the customer. I still think it's fraud.

    Rob.
     
  19. Headhunter

    Headhunter Never enough shell loading Revolvers

    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    4,135
    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    Yeah, it's deceitful wording....'rifled barrel' vs 'fully rifled barrel', when you see the term rifled barrel you automatically assume that it's fully rifled, technically (and probably legally) they can state that it is as advertised as it does have a rifled barrel, albeit not a fully rifled barrel.

    Personally I think that it may have more to do with the manufacturer (in this case 'Wingun') than the distributor (ASG & Gletcher), but I could be wrong. It's such a shame really as both the DW715 6" and the Nagant are lovely well made revolvers that are severely let down by being 'short changed' with this barrel fiasco.

    I still haven't heard from any other owners as to whether their Nagant is the same as mine ! So I cannot say with any certainty that it's all of them or just the later manufactured ones (like the DW715-6").
     
    Modski66 likes this.
  20. Troy T.

    Troy T. Aquanaut

    Messages:
    309
    Likes Received:
    345
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Hello Mr H.Hunter. My Nagant is the same as yours and I also felt conned. Must go along with the opinion that they are over priced die cast toys that will not stand the test of time .
     
    Modski66 and Headhunter like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice