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Fitting More Than 2 In The Magazine Using Shorter Shells?

Discussion in 'Shotguns (SGC)' started by c4four, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. c4four

    c4four Active Member

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    Has anyone done this/ would it be legal? Are there any places in the UK which sell short shells?
     
  2. buffy vampire slayer

    buffy vampire slayer LOW BELLEND THRESHOLD

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    what i generally do is saw them in half and re crimp them and then you can get 5 in.
     
  3. Spray1Mark

    Spray1Mark NOW PERMANENTLY BORED!

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    No it wouldnt be legal!
     
    mmamonster likes this.
  4. Vasbyt

    Vasbyt Resident Slipjoint Junkie

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    On a section 2 SGC, a big no no. Unless you want to spend some time at her majesties pleasure

    less powder less shot, why bother?

    Edit: also with the change in power of the shell would it cycle properly in order to eject and load the next cartridge?
     
  5. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    Many section 2 guns fit three factory shells in the mag.
    A pump .410 or semi auto will take 3 factory two inch shells.
    A semi or pump 31/2 inch chambered gun in 12 bore will take 3 two and a half inch factory shells.
    The guns have been tested for complying with uk mag restrictions so ok.
     
    Sky likes this.
  6. c4four

    c4four Active Member

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    why would it be illegal, since I would not be modifying the gun, and which thing would make it illegal? (i.e having shorter shells, putting shorter shells in etc)
     
  7. Vasbyt

    Vasbyt Resident Slipjoint Junkie

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    1. So what I always took from the mess that is UK firearms legislation was this:

      A shotgun is a section 2 firearm provided you can't fit more than 2+1 of the proofed cartridge , of course if you have a 3.5" proofed gun you could of course put more than two smaller size cartridges in the magazine but by doing so start getting yourself in a grey area legality wise. "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

      Advice on various firearms licensing departments such as Durham and Cheshire state 'conventional size cartridges' If your talking about mini shells such as Aguila and the like they aren't what I could call conventional size cartridges..

      I'm no licensing expert so why don't you go and ask BASC or your local constabulary for advice? then you can come back and tell us the correct answer.
     
  8. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    I don’t think you would be doing anything wrong.

    The law says section two shotguns must be approved by the proof house as restricted to two shots in the mag tested and marked as such.
    This is at maximum shell length for the guns chamber.
    As long as the gun has obtained the correct permissions and marks from the proof house it’s a legal section 2.

    There is no where in law or guidance that I have seen that says you can’t put shorter shells in the magazine.


    By Putting shorter shells in you reduce the over all payload.
    3x three and a half inch shells. 189g of shot.
    4x two and a half inch shells.
    128g of shot.

    3 x .410 three inch 54g of shot. 4x .410 two inch 36g of shot.

    So probably a grey area that would never be worth new clarifying legislation.
    The purpose of the law is to reduce potential damage from criminal misuse if the gun is so used, not to stop someone putting an extra small ratting cartridge in.
    So I can’t see it being an issue.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  9. TERRY101

    TERRY101 Member

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    Get caught and then let us know what happened.
     
    metalman likes this.
  10. Arran-ashley

    Arran-ashley Member

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    Shotguns which have barrels shorter than 24 inches, or which are capable of firing more than three shots without reloading, are not to be held on an SGC. They are dealt with under the FAC provisions.

    This has been taken from my local gun club.
    So I’d say at a guess it would be illegal if caught. Why not just get an FAC shotgun? And save the hassle of modifying cartridges or the gun itself?
     
  11. DUNKS

    DUNKS Big Poster

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    Has anyone had their guns tested by authority?
    Ideal time of course is on a SGC renewal! Recently had mine and feo was only interested in serial numbers and security. I could have had a semi which held five and he would not have known. The tubes could also be swopped in minutes it's not a gunsmiths job.
    Also of course to test on a renewal you would have to have dummy cartridges, cant see loading live ones for instance in your bedroom would go down well.:)
     
  12. rizla1

    rizla1 hi

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    My beretta extrema will take 4 shells but i always stick to 3 for safty reasons, i dont wanna go leaving 1 in there by mistake
     
  13. The burpster

    The burpster Posting Addict

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    ....and neither will any of us until something goes wrong and then every firearm you own will be examined. By someone that has an encyclopaedic knowledge of firearms? Highly unlikely in my experience.

    Put simply, don’t draw attention to yourself and you won’t fall foul of the law.

    I can relate quite a few stories I have collected over the years but none have resulted in a prosecution. FEOs are there to make sure nothing is obviously wrong and that is the extent of most of their knowledge. Contrary to common belief they are not the font of all knowledge and actually more often than not they are not involved in shooting and it would appear Licensing departments do not want employees that are involved in shooting sports.
     
  14. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    ALL of our guns have been tested to ensure they comply with the law.

    They all have proof house approval stamps don’t they ?

    The act does not say how many cartridges you are allowed to put in. But that all section 2 shotguns must be tested to ensure they comply with the restrictions on capacity and may not be modified.

    If the proof house chooses to decide that a 3 1/2 inc chamber gun is legal.
    Even though it will fire 3 cartridges of 3 1/2 inches or 4 cartridges of 2 1/2 inches.
    That is not the problem of the end user. The proof house decides it’s legal so it is.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  15. Arran-ashley

    Arran-ashley Member

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    There all proof stamped, but putting them through a proof house, is to make sure That the barrels don’t bulge or bend under excessive load, basically a stamp to say its fit for purpose.

    But Putting more than 2 short cartridges into the magazine of a Section 2 3" or 3.5" gun is breaching the legislation and therefore is illegal?
     
  16. The burpster

    The burpster Posting Addict

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    It’s fairly clear that it will be a matter for the courts to decide so as I see it, take a chance and get caught, then explain to the courts.
     

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  17. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    Lol Go read the legislation and check who is responsible for certifying shotguns as section 2

    It only says the gun must be certified as section 2 ( 2+1 ) compliant not what you can or can’t put in it as an end user.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
    Arran-ashley likes this.
  18. c4four

    c4four Active Member

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    If the gun can hold 3 in the mag, that's still 1 more than intended
     
  19. rizla1

    rizla1 hi

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    I only put 2 in the mag and 1 in chamber
     
  20. Arran-ashley

    Arran-ashley Member

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    Spoke to my local RFD, r10hunter, you are right so my apologies! he said that a 3.5” chambered semi is designed for using 3.5” cartridges and only 3.5” but there’s no law stating to use only 3.5” and as a loop hole, you can load smaller cartridges in and gain 1 more cartridge whilst still being a section 2, and said the same about proofing. He also went on to say that some FEO’s would class it as a section 1. But it would vary from person to person?
    Altho for me, my Benelli super Vinci won’t load 3in the tube, So it must be different tolorences from gun to gun? Or manufacturers?
    But then this said, I’d just use my section 1 Benelli if I need more than 3 shots :) less hassle lol
     
    r10hunter likes this.

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