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Bad news FED UP NOW!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by Andy Wales, Sep 10, 2014.

  1. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    Very sorry for long thread but this is very important to me. Thanks!

    I went to a local builders supply merchants this morning on my way to my permission and bought a Stanley 30m/100ft Reel type measuring tape. Well made and works just as expected and didn't need to wait for delivery from EBay etc and it's easy for me to add more than 30 metre's as needed.

    I measured and set up a few targets at 23m (25.1 Yards) as suggested by a few people and started to attempt to zero my scope. Hmm, not impressed is an understatement :mad:! Only a week ago I was putting 5-7 pellets under a 5p piece maybe 7 times out of 10 and the remaining 3 out of ten say under a 50p piece with an odd flyer now and then. Today, I would be embarrassed to show any pics if I had any, of my "groups" :confused:. I think I must have been using my old side by side 20 bore lol as they were just all over the place. This from a sitting position with a wood block rifle rest which was moving a little bit (think picnic type wooden bench and table) on my mates farm (dedicated target/zeroing area for his other mates with their rimfire/centrefires). All groups done with RWS Superdomes my current fav's.

    Time to get out the allen keys. Yep, sure enough, some of the mount and scope bolts are slightly loose. I loosened everything, removed scope and started fresh. Fitted to dovetails, made sure crosshairs were dead straight, re-tightened everything securely. Back to zeroing. Big improvement! Now the groups are much better! ;). Trouble is, out of 7 pellets, although maybe 4 would be quite close, 3 would be still nothing like I was shooting a week or so ago and would be well off on times. Maybe 4 under a 10p with the other 3 under ahem, let's just say well off. Not even so much as a gentle breeze today either. Dead still Air and hot here in South Wales.

    I don't know what's wrong. Maybe I'm just crap at it and not as good as I thought/hoped I was, maybe I need to visit the optician for an eye test (Well above average I was told for long range last eye test 2 years ago :cool: and only need cheap reading glasses for reading texts/small fonts etc), or maybe it's the Rifle/Scope itself, maybe I'm moving a little as I pull the trigger. I have tried the artillery hold thingy and been really loose and not holding the rifle too tight. I just don't know what's wrong and I'm miffed as you can tell. And yet, I then measured out to 30m and taped a small size pellet tin lid on top of a post and the very first shot hit it just below the top edge of the tin. Put it back and second shot hit it bang in the middle. Very odd she wouldn't do consistently nice small tight groups though.

    One maybe important thing I have noticed. I appear to have to always adjust my head (Usually forwards toward scope) too much when shouldering the rifle and most say it should be at the correct place to shoot as soon as it's shouldered? I say I have to move because sometimes if I don't, I will not get the "full size view of the cross hairs" if you know what I mean. I don't know how to explain it properly. I have tried moving the scope back as far as I could, but it didn't seem to make much difference. I wonder if the stock is slightly too long for me? How far should ones eye be from the rear (occular lense) of the scope for correct image/shooting and could this be my problem?

    Dammit, I knew I should have taken up my beloved Fly-Fishing again instead LOL :D. At least I knew I was pretty good at that! But seriously, I need to find out what's going wrong, but I have no idea how to go about it :confused:. Maybe buy/try a new scope in case this one is faulty or something?

    Come on you experts lol. Tell me what "might" be wrong before it does my head in and I "break" the rifle, but not in the normal way one would break a springer!!!! :D

    Andy :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  2. neil82

    neil82 Busy Member

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    first thing, when groups open up it may be a sign that the barrel needs a clean, some never (or very rarely) need a clean and some need it every couple of tins of pellets, apart from that, it`s pellet test time again
     
  3. sillygarry

    sillygarry Posting Addict

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    first option clean barrel and try different pellets my 22 bsa ultra loves rws superdomes but my 177 ultra hates them the same as your problem
     
  4. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    Parallax error? Possible if your not getting your head in the right place.
    What distance is your parallax set at? Is it adjustable?
    A little bit of clipping are you using a silencer have you tested without a silencer.?
    Cheers Andy
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  5. gasman

    gasman Up a bit,,,,,,,

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    Just because there your favourite pellet don't mean there your gun's , I'd try AA fields or JSB's , also as said earlier , make sure your head is always in same position each shot too, very important.
     
  6. chevin

    chevin Keyboard Hero

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    Clean the barrel and try some aa fields.
     
  7. metalman

    metalman Very Active

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    The fact you have to move your head to get a "full" scope, would suggest the scope is not setup properly. Best place to start
     
  8. 177

    177 Donator

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    ^^ This ^^

    To start with anyway.

    Shoulder you gun and get your head into a comfortable position with your eyes closed. Both of them.

    Now open your eyes. Both of them.

    Note how far forward you have to move your head to get correct eye relief and move your scope back that distance.

    Repeat the above until you can mount the gun with your eyes closed, open them, and the scope is the correct distance in front of you.

    Concentrate on eye relief first.

    Now, repeat the above all over again and start checking eye alignment - no point looking for alignment when your eye relief is out of whack IMHO

    Your mounts may be too high or too low, or you may need an adjustable butt plate to get the stock comb in the right place for your particular build.

    Change one thing and test the results to narrow the problems down and get rid of them.

    Change many things and you can introduce more issues without knowing which, if any, you have addressed.

    If your scope is parallax adjustable set it for the distance you are shooting at - if it isn't, you might want to consider setting it to around 30 yards. Some prefer around 27 yards while other go for 35 but anywhere around that area is going to be better than a fixed 100 yard parallax.

    IMHO eye alignment and eye relief are among the biggest issues to face shooters - if eye alignment was absolutely spot on every time, parallax error would play almost no part in the game regardless of where it was set (comparatively speaking).

    Most of us try to fit ourselves to the gun rather than the other way around.

    Take a deep breath, get rid of your frustration, spend the time aligning everything methodically, set or alter parallax as required, then find a pellet your gun likes.

    All things being equal, that should see proper groups in no time :)
     
  9. Stevie Darling

    Stevie Darling Sexual tyrannosaurus

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    Pull through, test other pellets, and remove silencer!

    its amazing what different pellets can do:)
     
  10. ratman60

    ratman60 Pro Poster

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    hello, there is nothing wrong with your set up as long as rifle works smooth and scope is set up properly, one piece mount with lock stud, it is not usual hawkes are wrong. so then its either the pellet?, not quite set to zero, or the way your holding rifle, try a complete start, clean barrel, re set scope, zero but use a better way to hold rifle, workmate with hold system or bean bag to rest on, if all aligns when you shoulder and butt length to trigger there is no reason not to get better results, put butt in crease of arm and trigger finger should be on first bend of finger as i always have. hope you understand so dont give up
     
  11. scottroutledge

    scottroutledge Engaging Member

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    You may just be having a bad day ! I have them from time to time I usually put 5 shots inside of a 10p from 25-30 yds but then on other days I can just about manage to get 1 on target, this usually happens when I have my boys out with me and they dont half take the p#@s out of me when Im not shooting too good. My kids call it loosing your mojo lol. Hope you get it sorted mate , just remember that when youre frustrated you wont be focused and the shooting will not improve. Try what othere have suggested and hopefully your groups will be back to normal.
    Scott
     
  12. RED1 TOM

    RED1 TOM Well-Known Member

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    Hi Andy,

    You do not say what the rifle is i.e.. springer or PCP. Forget the pellet issue to start with, the problem probably is either the scope eye relief set-up or the way you are holding the rifle. For good eye relief you should have a full round clear image when you view though the scope, if you are getting either a part circle or darkening then the relief is wrong ( normally your eye should be about 3 inches from the scope ) . If your rifle is a springer then make sure you are using the artillery hold, which means not holding the gun tightly and not gripping the fore stock, but letting the rifle rest on your opened palm. Also with a springer you will need to hold the follow through until you have seen the pellet impact though the scope.

    The best way to test your technique is to shoot with two different springers, swapping from one to another using the same hold and see what works and what wont.

    Hope this helps mate

    Tom.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  13. Bemused

    Bemused Engaging Member

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    Many a time I adjust too many things in one go and lose the plot and other times I have such a bad day I think something is bust then everything is fine for weeks.
    I suspect you may have parallax issues though.
     
  14. loki_79

    loki_79 Donator

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    As mentioned a few times already, the easiest thing to rule out is parallax. It is very likely to be at least part of your problem if you do not have AO on your scope, and even if you do, it could still be the problem if your scope is not focused correctly.
     
  15. DUNKS

    DUNKS Big Poster

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    Cant add anything to what has been said except that you say you "PULL" the trigger. Could just be where you are going wrong.
     
  16. tombillings916

    tombillings916 Donator

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    You could be spot on there Scott, it's something we all suffer from time to time (Golfers especially can be brilliant one day, totally crap the next) the set up might be perfect but it's just us having an off day.
     
  17. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    Hi,
    Just an expression :). I ease the trigger back gently I maybe should have said ;). The trigger is also Hatsans Quattro 2 stage fully adjustable and is very light and smooth in use :D. Even the expert shooters like it a lot compared to any other budget springers on the market ;)

    Andy :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  18. bf95

    bf95 Donator

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    If it's a springer you've got check the stock screws and as many have said set scope and clean barrel
     
  19. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    Thanks everyone for you great advice/input! I believe most of you are correct about position of scope/correct eye view/parallax error etc. I have already done a lot of pellet testing and when things were going good with good groups, it was the RWS Superdomes that always proved to be the most accurate. That's why I say they are my fav's :).

    I just ordered a new scope to try. I have spent so much recently and don't have a huge budget right now so it's not an expensive one :rolleyes:.

    It's that one that always appears at the top of the listings when you search "rifle scope" on EBay. 6-24x50 aoe optics air rifle gun hunting scope with Red/Green illuminated reticle etc etc. Yeah, it's a cheapie I know, but at least it's AO adjustable and all I can manage right now.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-24x50-a...Hunting_ShootingSports_ET&hash=item256c223aa8

    It's a start and I can work from there by setting it up in the way advised by the helpful folks here :). It says delivery by Friday latest, so I can try it before weekend hopefully. All I have to do now is figure out from the information you've given me how to set it up to suit myself with proper eye relief etc and figure out this AO/Parallax thing which is all new to me :eek:. I will add my findings to this thread after I have set it up and tried it, hopefully sometime Friday! Thanks All!

    Andy :)
     
  20. Andy Wales

    Andy Wales Donator

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    It's the springer in my sig, Hatsan Mod 60's .22 and it's only a month old :)
     

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