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Falcon Fn Issue

Discussion in 'Technical' started by LG2, Jul 19, 2020.

  1. LG2

    LG2 Member

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    Hi there,

    I recently got my sanitized hands on an old FN19 .177 single shot and am having issues with the shot count. Apparently, even in .177, 60 shots should be available with the middle 40 or so being consistent. I am currently getting about 20-25 consistent, accurate shots from a 2500-2600 psi fill (this should give better consistency than the full rated 2700 psi). Any ideas what the issue might be?

    Also, I think the probe section of the bolt might be bent as the skirt of the pellet often catches on entering the breech. If I fully retract the bolt and compare it to the breech housing the thinnest portion seems to be slightly bent up by less than 0.5mm. If any other owners could check whether this is also the case with you and let me know it would be very grateful.

    Apart from this it shoots like a dream with a beautifully crisp trigger and I was easily achieving 10 shot sub 1 inch groups at 40m with a crappy 4x32 (replacement on the way), homemade bi-pod and less than ideal pellets. I could barely see the target behind the crosshair!


    Any assistance much appreciated,

    L

    P.S. Does anyone have any idea where the Falcon owners forum has gone?
     
  2. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Welcome to the forum.

    Firstly I'd caution you against the expectation of 40 "good" shots from an FN19 as their cylinders are pretty small, although I guess it depends on what you define as "good".

    I'm guessing you've not chronographed the gun; some consistency figures would help and this may well explain where your lost shots are going as these guns are getting on now any many have been played with by muppets. Well worth getting it tested / buying a chrono if for no other reason than to ensure you're legal ;)

    The bolt probe should be concentric so if it's not this needs addressing.

    The Falcon Owner's Forum has probably gone the way of many other marque-specific forums before it; given the rise of Facebook groups (which are usually full of bottom-feeders IME) and the fact that these guns are no longer made.

    Stick around on here - you should find all the info you could ever wish for (and plenty of stuff you really wouldn't :p )
     
    hmangphilly, NIVEA and Ganton Gunner like this.
  3. Stockscrew

    Stockscrew Busy Member

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    I had a query regarding a Falcon recently. I was directed to the Falcon Owners Club but they are now closed to new members so that avenue is closed.
    Is the gun in question a Falcon or a Titan, same gun different manufacturer? If its a Titan, John Bowkett is the man to talk to, see his Facebook page for phone number. If it's a NSP Falcon, don't bother, he will not be interested.
    The bolt can be slid out for inspection by removing the retaining screw and rolling the bolt via the parallel sections on a flat surface keeping the bolt handle and locking lug off the edge of the same surface, that should show if it's out of true.
     
  4. Blackmax

    Blackmax Forum Rude Guy

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    Try @ped on here, he’s a mine of knowledge on the Falcon models and he’s a major contributor to the Falcon Facebook group where there’s a lot of really useful information.
     
  5. LG2

    LG2 Member

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    It's a Falcon, but the one designed by Bowkett (basically a Titan Manitou MC010).

    I have already taken the bolt out to inspect/clean and the bend is only really noticeable when compared to something flat or when loading a pellet.

    Thanks
     
  6. LG2

    LG2 Member

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    I know what you mean about the shot count, but even an air hungry .177 with a smallish, relatively low pressure cylinder I would have expected at least a few more than 25 shots. I do think there's an issue.

    My first thought was that maybe I'd accidentally bought the FAC version (I believe there was a 14ftlb or so one). I've also heard of 'muppets' fitting oversized transfer ports which slashes shot count. I'll get a chrono and see and then post the findings.

    As for the bolt, I would have loathed to shove it in even a padded vice and try to bend it back into place as I thought it would be difficult to get a replacement. However, Blackmax just mentioned a guy called ped and it seems he makes/sells Falcon parts so maybe I'll give it a try now a replacement is available. In your opinion would it be worth regulating a rifle like this (I think Robert Lane makes an FN19 reg) or is it just a waste of time and money?

    Many thanks,

    L
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
    Blackmax likes this.
  7. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Indeed; 25 shots does seem a bit on the low side and it's quite possible that this is the result of ill-advised tinkering.

    I suspect the way to go with the bolt would be to remove the handle and get someone with a lathe to clock it up with a DTI and tweak it until running true. If you get stuck I do have some NOS Falcon loading bolts, but I'm not sure exactly what's there so I'd have to have a rummage. Suppose I ought to sell them but I know they're pretty rare and I quite fancy a lighthunter one day so am in no hurry to diminish my stash of potential spares.

    The reg's an interesting one. Personally I'd not bother on the grounds that they're time consuming to fit properly and you'll never get back the money you spend. That said the FM potentially lends itself well to regging - the ports are separate items that can be swapped out (although I'm not sure what size the port in the barrel is) and the striker has a lot of adjustability. If you could seal the re against the valve housing and vent it through the cylinder threads (thus avoiding having to drill the cyinder) it would be more attractive.

    Otherwise, given the nature of the rifle and spares availability it would be a real shame to irreversibly modify any of it for the sake of fitting a reg IMO.
     
    NIVEA likes this.
  8. ped

    ped Keyboard Hero

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    i have probes in stock .177 r/h and 1 lefty .20 r/h .22 r/h with lefty's by special order in these calibers
    your shot count is low even for a .177 as a .22fn 12 gives about 30-35 shots set at 11fpe
    for fill pressure around 165bar seems to be the start of the sweet spot for a sub 12
    what often happens is owners buy stupid springs from nobber and fit oversize tp's so your first job is to chrono with your fill pressure and run it all the way down to accurately get an idea where the sweet spot is and how many shots before it drops off -i'd not have this done in a shop incase it has been overly messed with
    of all the falcons the 19's are the only one i'd consider fitting a reg to but i'd not rush into having one done
     
  9. LG2

    LG2 Member

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    I agree. Maybe if I can one day find a beaten up/ non-original .177 I'll modify that to take a reg, but mine currently shoots fine as it is so I'll try not to turn into one of the aforementioned muppets.
     
    cloverleaf likes this.
  10. Frenchy

    Frenchy Newbie

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    Hi there, i have acquired what i though was a Falcon but i now believe its a Titan from photos but not 100% sure. There are no markings other than the PSI rating (2700) and SN. The photo of it is my profile pic. Do you know how to tell the exact model?
     
  11. LG2

    LG2 Member

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    The image isn't really big enough for me to see but from what I can make out it looks like a Falcon FN12, although I'm no expert. The Titan equivalent is a MC010 Carbine.

    The markings on my FN19 are on the left of the breech when shooting the gun. They are a stamped picture of a domed pellet, then a wadcutter pellet, then 'S.W.P.2700P.S.I 95xxx .177'

    Things to look for on a Titan vs Falcon and apologies in advance for image sizes:

    Titans often have a less pronounced roll-over on the cheek piece and the fore-stock on a Titan is longer and more rounded in cross section, although that may not be the case on the carbine as both images are of 19 inch barrel models. Titans and Falcons have a different bolt handle and a longer, less square pellet loading port. Some Titans swapped the bolt handle shown here for a plain cylindrical one and the curved sided breech opening for the square sided one. Later Falcon FNs can be multi-shot (although yours looks like a single) with a groove in the fore-stock.

    Titans and Falcons went through quite a few evolutions in their time so these pointers aren't certainties. These images show the differences mentioned but not all of them may apply to your rifle as it depends where your rifle comes in the evolution (but if your gun has any of the early Titan markers - the walking stick-like bolt, curved loading tray, brass trigger, cheek piece etc. it is certainly a Titan). Titan became Falcon so it's natural that late Titans look very similar to early Falcons.

    Titan:
    Titan 1.jpg
    Falcon:
    20200524_130315.jpg
    Titan:
    Titan 2.jpg
    Falcon:
    20200524_130321.jpg
    Titan:
    Titan 3.jpg
    Falcon:
    20200524_130332.jpg


    Hope that helps.

    L
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  12. Frenchy

    Frenchy Newbie

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    3D65465E-956C-4DD4-BB8E-9D08303C6A63.jpeg 3D65465E-956C-4DD4-BB8E-9D08303C6A63.jpeg 3D65465E-956C-4DD4-BB8E-9D08303C6A63.jpeg
    Thanks so much. From what you say it looks like it maybe a Falcon after all. Definitely no pellet markings and very similar to your second photo. Apologies I thought my profile pic would zoom out but I have attached the photo so hopefully you can see. Thanks for the information it’s very much appreciated. Regards F
    3D65465E-956C-4DD4-BB8E-9D08303C6A63.jpeg

    3D65465E-956C-4DD4-BB8E-9D08303C6A63.jpeg
     
  13. El Caro

    El Caro Keyboard Hero

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    Straight cut across breech blocks were used on late Titan Manitous. Falcon set themselves up in business while Titan were still in existance, hijacked the whole design and just changed the stock shapes a bit.
     
    Frenchy likes this.

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