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FAC Airgun vs. 22 Rimfire

Discussion in 'Firearms Certificate (FAC) Guns' started by Chicken_man, Jun 7, 2015.

  1. Chicken_man

    Chicken_man Engaging Member

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    Hello all, first post here. I'm a chicken farmer of sorts and have constant problems with crows / magpies taking eggs and also a minor rat problem. All birds are free range so no big sheds. I own the land so no issues there. I used to have a HW77K years ago and nowadays borrow dad's AA S200 (I think that's the model anyway, lightweight pre-charged thing) which is all good but particularly for crows, I'm finding it lacking a little as they always seem 15 yards too far away for a clean kill and I hate see anything fly off with a pellet in it. b*****s fly off and sit in a tree about 50 yards away and I'm not into taking pot shots at live animals. Would rather invest in a gun that can end them instantly. Backdrop is a steep field on the other side so no issues there.

    So was thinking of a .22 Rimfire with a FAC but in Mole Valley the other day saw the Cometa 400 carbine with moderator for £200. Reading up it seems a decent little gun and there is the option to fit a better spring (Titan 5 I think?) and this takes it up over the legal limit. The gun is designed to operate at these pressures I believe so no issue there. Obviously I would need an FAC and that's all fine. I just want the best weapon for what I need to control.

    Question is really, how does an FAC airgun compare to a .22 rimfire? How much extra range / punch would a Titan 5 spring in the Cometa gain me? Does accuracy suffer? What's the realistic range for accurate, clean kills on crows? Is there any other gun I should look at given a limited budget? Obviously a rimfire is not suitable for rats at fairly close range so I'm looking for a compromise.

    Sorry for all the questions.
     
  2. gasman

    gasman It tasted like chicken

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    You may find it hard to find " one gun does all" type of thing, .22lr may be over kill, what's your land like ie size neighbours etc?
     
  3. Elk hunter

    Elk hunter Keyboard Hero

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    I'd put up a Larson Tap or ladder Trap to catch the birds, it's effected this time of year.

    Andrew
     
  4. gargloit

    gargloit Posting Addict

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    Crows have access to the national firearms database and can identify the make, type, calibre, and effective maximum range of any firearm you may carry. They will then take up positions approximately 20 yards beyond that range.
     
  5. Shoto1

    Shoto1 Donator

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    Too true ~ they also watch you tube and browse AGF :D
     
  6. kermitboy1

    kermitboy1 Banned

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    As has been mentioned already, you would be able to knock plenty over with your existing kit if you employed a ladder trap. We use one at work. The secret is to only plan to use it a few times each year and if possible choose different locations for each erection.

    Corvids are fast learning b*****s and will not take long to work out that the good old ladder trap spells bad news for them. By then, you might as well take it back down. But if you do things correctly and bait it well, it will catch a good number. KB1
     
  7. Chicken_man

    Chicken_man Engaging Member

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    Thanks all. Land is about 50 acres and quiet. No issues with neighbours even with a shotgun. Field is well away from the road or any other dwellings and no footpaths. I have been looking at ladder traps and may try to knock one up and see how I get on. Also got a lot of bunnies so maybe an LR would not be a bad investment and stick to the S200 for rats and closer stuff.
     
  8. Titchgamer

    Titchgamer Honorary Member

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    We used to have similar problems with Crows but I went for FAC air so I can shoot the b*****s out of the trees!
    Cant do that with the .22LR ;)
     
  9. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

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    This.
     
  10. gasman

    gasman It tasted like chicken

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    Yep or shotgun
     
  11. Stonepark

    Stonepark Engaging Member

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    FAC airgun in 20ftlb class will take crows to 60 yards without a problem in 22 and still splash down within 250 yards or so if a miss.

    I did a 132 yard kill on a jackdaw last weekend with my rimfire (not in a tree but it was sitting 10ft below the top of a 60ft cliff) and eley subsonic bullet blew through like it wasn't there and splattered on the rock behind.

    For your use a fac air rifle will do just fine and be less hassle from the police to acquire due to only shooting over 50 acres.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2015
  12. 177

    177 Donator

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    Concentrating on the options you listed, there is no competition.

    IMHO pretty much any self-contained (spring or gas ram) FAC air rifle is largely a waste of a slot on your certificate.

    Before anyone gets excited about that I'm not disrespecting anyone who has gone down that road - the above is meant simply from a practical perspective. Box ticking, if you will.

    FAC PCP is infinitely more useful than an FAC spring powered rifle.

    I've never shot an HW80 over 20 FPE that was very nice with around 18 - 19 FPE being about optimal. The higher powered Webley Patriot was particularly unpleasant, and I have never shot a Theoben Eliminator over 22 FPE that was worth shooting. They can run a lot higher, but you can't easily manage them or shoot as accurately as you would like.

    I'd take a sub 12 FPE air rifle and a rimfire as a winning combination for almost all smaller vermin shooting. The one allows safe(r) shooting in and around buildings while the other offers surprisingly quiet, low recoil, well mannered and easily manageable accuracy out to silly ranges if you do your bit.

    IMHO if you want FAC air it almost has to be a PCP to be of real use.

    I would like another Theoben Eliminator, or perhaps a seriously tweaked and tricked out HW80, but I'd be able to do very little with it in vermin control terms compared to a PCP.

    There's an awful lot more to getting a spring powered rifle to shoot well at FAC levels than just upgrading the mainspring.

    When I got my FAC Rapid I thought I'd probably never use a sub 12 air rifle again.

    When I got my rimfire I pretty much stopped using my FAC Rapid and my mainstay tools for almost all of my vermin shooting are a multi-shot sub 12 FPE PCP air rifle and my rimfire. I use the .223 for foxing and Scottish roe deer and a .270 for other deer.

    I feel a sub 12 PCP air rifle and a rimfire are about the most flexible pair you could buy into. A nicely set up break barrel sub 12 air rifle can be surprisingly quiet and many a rat falls to a simple break barrel gun.

    Good luck no matter what you decide on !
     
  13. gargloit

    gargloit Posting Addict

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    If you are wanting a serious dig at crows why not consider a .17HMR? Much better and most forces now prefer them to .22 because of the lack of ricochet hazard that .22 has.
     
  14. Titchgamer

    Titchgamer Honorary Member

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    No good if they are sat up high though.
     
  15. 177

    177 Donator

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    Not to mention triple the running costs of a .22 rimfire.

    I pay around £40 for 500 .22 rimfire rounds. My mate pays about £14 for 50 .17HMR rounds.
     
  16. buffy vampire slayer

    buffy vampire slayer Keyboard Hero

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    your mate is going to the wrong shop.
    19 quid per 100 for me.
    just got 600 rounds for free from Edgar bros though so that should keep me going for a while.
     
  17. Elk hunter

    Elk hunter Keyboard Hero

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    Although cost is not an issue in my book when when vermin controlling, but it dose when just plinking. All the guys I know with hmr rifles never shoot as many rounds on my range day as the humble .22 guys and it's down to cost.

    Andrew
     
  18. kenman

    kenman Engaging Member

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    Also the fact that .22LR is much quieter than HMR!
     
  19. 177

    177 Donator

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    It could be a regional thing but I hear a lot of .17HMR shooters complaining about the price of ammo in these parts.
     
  20. gasman

    gasman It tasted like chicken

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    What make are they? The .17 rounds? Cheapest I can get are £12 per 50
     

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