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FAC Air - how much more stopping power? And best FAC rifles?

Discussion in 'Firearms Certificate (FAC) Guns' started by Nexus180, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. Nexus180

    Nexus180 Engaging Member

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    Hi all - after careful consideration I am on the verge of "taking the plunge" and applying for a FAC in order (at least to start with) to upgrade from .177 12 ft/lbs to .22 FAC power air rifle. I shoot primarily rabbits (but also pigeons and squirrel) on a farm, currently with a sub-12ft/lbs .177 HW100 and .177 R10. My main reason for wanting to go FAC is to get more stopping power - with my current rifles the pellet often passes straight through the target's head, but even then it sometimes does not die immediately; I want to do all I can to ensure it does. I am also hoping that body shots on pigeons/corvids will be possible with FAC air.


    I would therefore be v grateful to hear of others' experiences of moving from sub-12ft/lbs to FAC and how much difference it makes to stopping power.


    I would also be grateful for any recommendations for FAC air rifles - from the forum searching I have seen it seems to be all about the Rapid or Air Ranger (or possibly the Superten as a cheap alternative to the Rapid)?


    Cheers
     
  2. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

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    FAC Rapids have a huge following,basic,tough,easy to work on and a good shot count.
     
  3. techno

    techno Busy Member

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    Rapid

    Once youve had one you wont go back, is all i can say.Ive shot some pidgeons with a .22 live and there wasnt much usable meat left to cook,there was a hole big enough to get your thumb through !
    I tried pidgeons with the .22 air at about 60 yds using bizley 21.4gn magnums and there is much more usable cookable meat.The stopping power is properly awesome and totally lethal.
    I used my .22 sub 12 recently, it was like going back to a toy. I can recommend the Rapid too, go for the 19" barrel with the later mk4 scalloped block with 400cc 232bar bottle and a reg and you wont go far wrong .You can work out to 80 yds with the rapid running 35lb zero'd at 60 yds. I get about 40 constant shots, i usually refill at the end of 3 mags (36 rounds),with the rapid you can just change the buddy bottle for another out in the field easily, i fill mine to 230-235bar.The working pressure on my rapid bottle is 232 bar,with a test pressure of 450bar.
    Try and get an unmolested example if you can, expect to pay for around 5-600 quid for a tidy rifle without a scope,there are plenty of places to fix the rapid and plenty of suppliers of parts too.
    have alook on the rapid 7 forum.
    http://www.rapid7ownersclub.com/index.php?sid=bc7bc37c7057fad100305881fd4493e5
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  4. Crash72

    Crash72 Member

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    I have a Rapid .25 running at 48 ftlb's which has been completely custom built and tuned by A&M Custom Gunsmiths. This beast is lethal out to the magic 100 yards.
     
  5. techno

    techno Busy Member

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    Kin hell
     
    John_jb1 likes this.
  6. steve54

    steve54 Donator

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    Fac Rapid.... Excellent piece of kit.
    Best rifle i have owned. :D
    Dispatches rabbits cleanly, out to 100yds. - No problem.:up:
     
  7. kermitboy1

    kermitboy1 Banned BANNED

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    I am a Daystate Air Ranger owner, running a 40ft/lbs version. Its a great rifle, if not just a bit loud. I cant claim any 100 yd kills, and I don't attempt kills on live animals over 85yds. The rifle could do it, but I do not feel confident with my ability at that kind of distance using fac air.

    Up to 85yds, its stopping power is very strong. If you aim for a head shot on rabbits, you don't get any runners. You can feel the force of the impact and the stopping power.

    If I was in your position, I would be inclined to buy a HW100 in .22 running at around 30 ft/lb if they do such a thing. The reason I say this, is because I have a 100 in sub12 in .177 and to me, that is just the perfect air rifle. The trigger, the quality of the build, and the feel of the thing, is just the best to me. If a .22 in fac can group as good as the .177 sub 12's do, that's what I would have.

    If I could get a good return on a trade in for my Ranger, I would seriously consider going for a 'fac' HW100 in .22 myself. The main reason being that my Ranger is so bloody heavy whilst out in the field. Don't get me wrong, its a great rifle, but that weight is a killer for me. A carbine 'HW' really does float my boat. I may even look further in to it myself, the more I think about it. Good luck with which ever way you decide to go. I will look forward to reading what you went for. Perhaps later, I will be reporting back on what I think of the 'HW 100' in fac. You have got me thinking now. Cheers KB1
     
  8. neiled

    neiled Donator

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    KB1

    Don't do it mate, don't go for the FAC HW100 as I seriously thought about it after owning a sub 12 ft/lb HW100KT before opting for the Airwolf. On researching it a lot and speaking to guys on the WOC forum the HW100 doesn't really suit itself for FAC with the barrel not being able to handle anything over 26 ft/lb. Additionally the shot count suffers due to only having a tube rather than a bottle.

    After selling the Airwolf I bought an FAC .22 MK2 Rapid last week that was running too hot at 48 ft/lb but after some minor tweeking I zeroed it and had it giving me 12 pellet groups of 15mm centre to centre last night (not sure what power it's at now as I shot my bl**dy crombo over the weekend :().

    It's such an easy gun to work on, deadly accurate and built like a tank that all the reports I'd read on them are working out to be true. It'll be even better tomorrow after I meet up with one of the Rapid gurus who's going to set it up properly and service it for me then I can really start getting the best out of it :D.

    Neil

     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
  9. dave goodall

    dave goodall Donator

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    ^^^^^^^ this the hw 100 dosnt suit fac powers at all believe its some thing to do with twist rate of the barrel could be sorted by fiitting a lw barrel but you would still be limited by very little shot count imo buddy bottle fed guns are far superior to fac and no other comes close to the rapid for practability
     
  10. kermitboy1

    kermitboy1 Banned BANNED

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    I have been on the web this morning, and it would appear that the .22 in the Hw listings only hits 28ft/lbs. My boss had a Daystate mk4 that was running on something close to those figures. I had intended asking him how he got on with those kind of stats, but having read your comments, I will probably stick with 'Big Bertha'. Thanks for those points that you have raised. KB1
     
  11. dave goodall

    dave goodall Donator

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    The mk4 makes a excelent mid range fac gun ;)
     
  12. peststopper

    peststopper Member

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    I have airwolf tactical in .22 shooting jsb exact Diablo 18 grain 5.52 at 990ft/sec just over 39 Ft/lb, with 500cc bottle I get 130 shots from a 225 bar fill and in field get 7/8 groups at 100 yards. Rabbits still kick a little due to nervous system but pigeons shot front on just below the head don't even flap or side on where wing attaches to body.

    No better hunting fac air rifle than these in my opinion as with the AR custom mod from daystate there is no sound at all. The test is shooting at a group of woodies in the stubble, first shot with most airrifles they all fly off apart from the killed on, with the wolf and AR they all carry on feeding until they get dropped one by one.that's when you know you have a quiet gun.
     
  13. Stevie Darling

    Stevie Darling Sexual tyrannosaurus

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    Last year I had a shot of an hw100 running at 20ftlb, this thing was bloody awesome.

    I can remember the guy saying the accuracy suffered if it was set any higher


    Didn't get a chance for a hunt with it, but on paper it was bloody accurate. The only silencer that took the muzzle crack right down was the a&m twink!
     
  14. neiled

    neiled Donator

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    Can you please elaborate on your post above as I've just sold by FAC Airwolf that was also using the 18.13g JSB Exact Heavy Jumbo but I had it running at only 30 ft/lb and the most shots I could get out of it was 60 fitted with the same 500cc bottle to 225 bar so I'm amazed how you get more than the double the shot count especially running at 10 ft/lb more :confused:. What pressure did you shoot down to as the drop off after 120 bar would be quite considerable?

    Also what do you mean by "get 7/8 groups at 100 yards. Rabbits still kick a little due to nervous system but pigeons shot front on just below the head don't even flap or side on where wing attaches to body"..........are you saying that you get 7/8" groups and that you shoot rabbits at 100 yards with it?
     
  15. Meteor62

    Meteor62 Major Poster

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    If you hit a rabbit in the brain whether the shot passes through or not it should do the job.
     
  16. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    Does the pellet not make a huge thwack as it hits the pigeon? And the pigeons around your way don't spook from that?
    Cheers Andy
     
  17. 177

    177 Donator

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    I have a recently acquired 30 FPE Rapid and it's pretty amazing.

    I'm not going to bandy what I consider 'ambitious' range distances around but if I zero at around 42 yards I'm no more than half an inch either side from around 10 to 50 yards with 21 grain Bisley Magnums.

    Stuff knows its been hit, that's for sure. I only have a few pigeons and a couple of rabbits to it at the moment due to lack of time, but it's a pretty amazing bit of kit and surprisingly quiet with a Weihrauch mod on the business end.

    I will always have 12 FPE air rifles though, if for no other reason than an FAC air rifle is a firearm and, by definition, may not be used on many of my shoots.

    Even if it was allowed I'd still rather use sub 12 FPE on a large caravan and lodge holiday park than 30 FPE FAC air...

    It has its place and I am very glad I got it but the rimfire is still likely to be my mainstay rifle with the sub 12 air rifles being used in and/or around buildings and structures.

    I don't want to start a calibre debate and maybe it's just me, but I had more issues with .177 and runners than enough. Most people would jump all over me at this point and suggest my accuracy was/is at fault. I'm a pretty decent shot and don't have the same problems with .22 sub 12, so that's what I stick with. One of my mates shoots .177 exclusively and ran into trouble recently when his shots on feral pigeons were completely passing through and hitting the inside of barn walls and roof structures. Farmer wasn't pleased...

    The few pigeons I have taken with the FAC Rapid have dropped like the proverbial stone and, with good shot placement, there is no meat damage to the breast :)

    I will spend more time this winter getting to grips with it but early indications are good although I do intend keeping range to around 60 yards or under :)
     
  18. Meteor62

    Meteor62 Major Poster

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    I don't think it's down to the calibre a .177 pellet to us may look very small but to a rabbit or pigeon it's probably like us looking at a 30 calibre. In all my years shooting which were mainly .22 I had runners and flyers just the same as .177 if you hit a pigeon in the chest with .177 or .22 it's going to fly off hit it in the heart or lungs or head, it's coming down simple as that with whatever calibre.

    As for feral pigeons I recall on a feral pigeon clearance some months ago we were surprised to see one pigeon take 4 shots from a full power sub 12 .22 and still kept going I took a shot with my .177 with it and he was stone dead! Was it because .177 is more apt at killing? No I must simply hit a vital organ and the previous shots didn't. It happens. There's a bloke in a wheelchair in Coventry that was hit with nine 9mm bullets after he was a victim of a drug related shooting. Does this mean 9mm is an incapable calibre? Of course it doesn't it simply means every shot missed the vital organs. Having said all that a friend of mine was shot point blank in the head and is still around to tell the tale with the 9mm still lodged in his head thanks to some expert surgery.
     
  19. kermitboy1

    kermitboy1 Banned BANNED

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    My 'FEO' told me that the rules towards 'FAC' air had been amended, and all applications were, in the case of being approved, given open permit status. Perhaps its just relating to 'Essex', but I would have presumed your application would carry the same entitlement. Strange ?.... KB1
     
  20. 177

    177 Donator

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    As I have said often enough, whatever works is good. I can usually put the shot exactly where I want it to go but I have still seen a lot of runner rabbits and pigeons that make it to the next field when shot with .177 (not always shot by me incidentally).

    I am happy for anyone who finds that their rig does what is needed for them. I am more than happy with what mine do for me :)

    I was referring to landowner's stance rather than a legal one - I should have been clearer :)

    There are still times I would go sub 12 rather than FAC air or anything else, but that's a personal choice and not a recommendation for others to do the same.
     

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