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FAC Air, .22LR and .17HMR?

Discussion in 'Firearms Certificate (FAC) Guns' started by mattgriff88, May 23, 2014.

  1. mattgriff88

    mattgriff88 Busy Member

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    I have recentley had my fac and I have FAC Air, .22LR and .17HMR on my ticket.

    I went straight out and bought a .17hmr a lovely anschutz 1517 thumbhole.
    Cracking rifle and have been taking out rabbits at a 100 yards comfortably, well happy!

    Now i don't think im going to bother with .22LR as I just don't see the need for it at the moment.

    I know it is a lot quieter than a hmr but Im not really bothered how loud the gun im shooting is to be honest.
    It is prone to ricochets and the only plus point I can see of the .22LR over the HMR is the ammo is cheaper.

    I applied for FAC air purely because I have a daystate air ranger 12ftlb which I did plan on having tuned to around 40ftlb but after getting a price I have gone off the idea and can't see me using it over the hmr anyway.
    Only time I would use a air rifle over a hmr is if I was shooting pigeons in a barn or simular.

    As you can see im well impressed with the hmr for a rabbits and im thinking in the future im going to swap the .22LR for a .223 for fox control.

    Bearing in mind I have never shot a .22LR which seems to be a caliber most beginners start with but I just don't see the need to be honest.

    Do you think I should at least give the .22LR a go or am I right in what im saying?

    Cheers
     
  2. 177

    177 Donator

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    I think you've answered your own question already.

    I went with .22 rimfire over .17HMR for my rabbit shooting.

    I've used both, a lot, and triple the running costs for no real benefit to how and where I shoot meant the .22 rimfire was infinitely more appropriate to me.

    I understand what others get out of .17HMR but, for me and the areas I shoot on, .22 makes infinitely more sense.

    The ricochet potential of .22 rimfire is largely down to sloppy shooting habits. If you are a safe shooter there is no reason why you should ever experience a ricochet IMHO

    FAC air is something I asked for and was granted but, so far, I've done nothing about it.

    FAC air basically gives you flatter shooting, but doesn't extend your range very much at all.

    If you're really good with sub 12 FPE air rifles then your range isn't likely to increase beyond maybe 10 or 20 yards at best. You will shoot much flatter so accuracy is easier, but range isn't proportionally increased.

    Additionally, if you have an existing rifle modified, you have the typically high attendant conversion costs and you seriously devalue your gun in the process.

    I have always said that if you go with FAC air you need to keep what you already have and buy an FAC air rifle as well, or sell what you have and replace it with FAC air.

    Another issue with FAC air is that once it becomes a firearm it is classed as one for good in most constabularies, and land not cleared for firearms or where use of firearms is considered inappropriate or potentially dangerous would preclude their use anyway.

    There are certain circumstances where FAC air can be incredibly useful - most people that I know don't encounter these conditions often, or even at all.

    If the .17HMR is doing what you ned it to do then ask what you think you might need as well which extends your capabilities.

    Assuming the .17HMR is primarily for bunnies, you might consider a .222, 22-250, 220 swift or similar for foxing (if you need to control them) or .223 if you want something for foxing, long range rabbit and corvid control, and for certain smaller deer species.

    It all comes down to the shooting you have available or that you expect to have in the future, and gearing up accordingly.

    Good luck finding the right combination for your circumstances :)
     
  3. Kyska

    Kyska Honorary Member

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    As knowledgeable and helpful you are, I can't agree with the comment above.

    I've had many a lr, and on my farm, almost EVERY shot ricochets, a totally unacceptable scenario, that's prone, sticks, top of my 4x4, so much so I've made the safest decision and no longer own one, its a shame as I really like them.

    Now, this maybe an idiosyncrasy of my land, a shooter from this forum also experienced my hmr and my land, the hallowed calibre that 'doesn't' ricochet', 3 out of 10 were screamers, on that particular day (but its fair to say, this was target shooting, the bullets wouldn't have expanded the same as if they had hit a rabbit in the turnip)

    The rest of your post, as usual, is on the button :)
     
  4. 177

    177 Donator

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    Fair enough :)

    I can't remember the last time I had a ricochet with a .22 rimfire, provided I actually hit the rabbit I was aiming at...

    The last ricochet I can remember was a badly pulled shot and entirely my fault.
     
  5. tombillings916

    tombillings916 Donator

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    I've fired hundreds of rounds of .22 LR and never had a ricochet yet, I've also observed literally thousands of rounds fired at my Gun Club over ranges from 25-50-100 yards and again never had any experience with ricochets of any description, perhaps it's the type of ammunition used or the rifle in question but I've fired everything from CZs, Sig Sauers, Anschutz, Ruger 10/22s with no issues at all, sounds very strange to me? Perhaps you're just unlucky!
     
  6. 177

    177 Donator

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    That more or less describes me too.

    I only use hollowpoint subs in .22 which might explain a part of the equation...
     
  7. scoie

    scoie Busy Member

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    I have all the same calibres and also .223 , for me i think everyone should own a .22lr in their armoury , hollowpoints at bunnies upto 80-90 yards for me with a ballistic ret ( nikon bdc) , costs pennies to feed and not alot to own a cz rifle, its on your ticket allready so no extra to put it on, fancy having a cheap target session/apple/exploding target day , grab the .22 and have fun. I will always find a use for any gun in my armoury , even if only polishing it :)
    rgds
    craig
     
  8. neiled

    neiled Donator

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    Same for me on the .22LR as I've not seen or heard a ricochet yet on any of the perms I shoot and I find it sits well between my FAC air and HMR.
     
  9. harry brown

    harry brown Banned

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    I've had quite a few ricochet, my eyesight might be poor but my hearings bang on! :eek: ;)
     
  10. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

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    I've had ricochets - it's either something you have to learn how to minimise or avoid by not using .22lr a la Kyska.
     
  11. harry brown

    harry brown Banned

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    Are you firing into the butts at a club rather than hunting? You're unlikey to get ricochets in the sand. I've fired literary thousands of 7.62 using 1 in 5 tracer and they go all over the place as you can see the tracer when it strikes and ricochets on Dartmoor and various military ranges. remember you can only see 1 out of every five rounds and yet it still looks like a firework display at night. My land is pretty safe so they don't concern me too much as long as I'm firing in a safe direction. Once it ricochets it's losing energy fast also.
     
  12. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    Like you say if the bullet is making that whizzing noise it's because the bullet is tumbling and losing energy fast. If you have suitable land for the bullet to run out of steam not a problem.
    No good for us though, although 4000 acres not much of it is safe enough maybe less than half, too many things to hit. Animals roads footpaths etc.
    Cheers Andy
     
  13. Kyska

    Kyska Honorary Member

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    As has been alluded to, the lr is the bread and butter of rabbit shooters, my land is very stoney, flinty land, great for drainage but not good for 40g of slow lead.

    The reason it's so not for me, is the areas I'd use the lr is around horses, houses and private gardens, the rest of the farm due to huge contractor machinery makes the lr redundant, due to the field size, heck, some of the fields need a small cf for rabbits, the hmr is out of range (and my shooting talent range). Hence I use a .204, some fields are 100 acre plus
     
  14. 177

    177 Donator

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    I went .22lr for out to 100 and .223 for anything further.

    Between them I figured they offered more flexibility overall and a greater range of quarry, so I had no need for the .17HMR since the .22 goes far enough for most shooting and the .223 goes further than the .17HMR

    Or something like that...

    :)

    My mate uses a 220 swift and a 22/250 to great effect and I've often considered them as an option.
     
  15. sneakysniper

    sneakysniper Donator

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    Keep the .22 lr on ticket mate. no need to give it up for .223 as you can just add that on top.

    A hmr will cover almost all aspects apart from rat/barn shooting etc, but there's nothing quite like sneaking about or ambushing/hide shooting with a silenced .22 and subs.

    I use my HW100 for rats/barns, most other things HMR, but i do love a sneak about with the LR. As for ricochets, learn to hit what you shoot at! :p
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  16. r10hunter

    r10hunter Honorary Member

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    I would say if there is a chance of a ricochet that could cause an issue don't take the shot better still don't use a .22 lr in that area.

    To rely on hitting the target is a little iffy.
    (I know you did not mean take to chances just making the point rabbits can move at the last second etc etc)
    Cheers Andy
     
  17. sneakysniper

    sneakysniper Donator

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    True, but we are in danger (as usual) of getting extreme H+S here. First of all, if ricochets are an issue AT ALL, then do not use powder burners.
    Kyska must have very flinty type ground. I have fired off 1000's of .22 lr ammo and can't recall many ricochets. If you are concerned of where the bullet may end up, then don't use bullets.
     
  18. harry brown

    harry brown Banned

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    True, which is why I'm going to place a well tamped sandbag behind every rabbit I shoot at from now on in....;)
     
  19. sneakysniper

    sneakysniper Donator

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    Don't pack it too hard, you might get a ricochet!
     
  20. harry brown

    harry brown Banned

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    I'm gonna ask my FEO for a .308 for rabbit to minimise the likelihood of ricochets... :violent3: :cool:
     

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