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Europe, in or out??

Discussion in 'General chit chat' started by Stevie Darling, Jun 11, 2015.

  1. kermitboy1

    kermitboy1 Banned

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    It will be the passion of the average working man that wants to feel that we are not being ruled by other nations, that will lead to us probably having to leave via the results of any referendum.

    However individuals need to think about the implecations involved in not being a member of what is a truely massive buisness market. Its all well and good saying yes we could stand alone and survive as a non member state, and we probably could, but it wouldn't happen over night, and you and i would face making decisions that would undoubtedly hurt us in the back pocket.

    The fact is, if all members had kept a better control on managing their own sovereign rights, Europe would be a much better thing to be a part of.

    The world has moved on in to many ways, and it would be a foolish move to play the pride card as a reason to risk being financially ruined because of not feeling we were fairly treated as a member. The plus points of being members, far outway the negatives. Wake up and smell the grass before making that decision with your X. KB1
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
  2. reaper6

    reaper6 Banned

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    Out no question
     
  3. mojomike

    mojomike Engaging Member

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  4. kermitboy1

    kermitboy1 Banned

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    Dont get me wrong, with my heart i am right up there with you on this one. But if you think of it from a financial point of view, and your buisness was doing well working within a group contract, would you close up shop one day and do a runner. Never......! Not unless you were a complete loon.

    However, if Europe was to collapse, then thats a different kettle of fish. But whilst its working in our favour, stick with it i say. KB1
     
  5. daveboy

    daveboy Engaging Member

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    Right let me get this correct.
    You are a member of a club and you pay your subs (very large subs)
    You pay a trusted team of accountants to do the books every year.
    The accountants tell you they can't pass the books because the whole committee is on the fiddle.
    Do you carry on paying yours subs and say nothing ?????
    Do you stop paying your subs and call the Police.(after voting off the committee)????
     
  6. kermitboy1

    kermitboy1 Banned

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    No. You carry on paying your subs because you are making a mint from trading with the gang. Take a look at the figures what its worth manufacturing wise to be in Europe. KB1
     
  7. BiggaJ

    BiggaJ Donator

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    For me the answer lies somewhere in the middle. If we were the powerhouse country we have been and I'm talking about industrial revolution days ..... then I would say OUT.

    The reality is we are Great in name more than endevour, Times change and people in general don't like change and don't like to see reality either.

    So for me, if we can renegotiate some power back to Westminster without pulling out of Europe this is the best option. Getting power back to control our borders and instil something similar to the way Australia control there's.

    We are a small country and cannot continue letting huge volumes of people in.

    We need to avoid giving overseas banks and car manufacturers an opportunity to pack up and go. At some point this may happen but we should not be pushing them.
     
  8. Soximus

    Soximus Busy Member

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    Agree with this.

    We should use our position as one of the top financial contributors to the EU coffers to make sure we get a good deal and remain within the EU if at all possible.

    I think we, (the Gov), should play hard ball as I am sure the EU as a whole do not want the potential de-stabalisation an out vote for GB would bring to the club.

    Greece may well start that ball rolling before we even get to a referendum.
     
  9. BiggaJ

    BiggaJ Donator

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    Thank you Soximus.

    I think the government is already trying to wrestle back some power from Brussels with Cameron doing the rounds so that when the time comes to vote on a referendum he may sway more people to vote to stay in. If he can achieve this then I will vote to remain in power. We literally have us, Germany and France bank rolling southern Europe, Belgium and Holland also contributing. The PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece & Spain) countries are being bank rolled but then this is what the union is about because if it were US in desperate need, they would have to help us. On our own we have no one!!!!

    I tend to think we would have been better not going in from the start like Norway, Denmark etc. But now we are in we have to make things work for us as pulling out will cause much havoc.

    The Germans and French won't want us to go given we are the second largest economy in Europe and presently the ONLY economy showing growth!!!!
     
  10. Darren Petts

    Darren Petts Temporarily Alive

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    Out for me.

    My wanting out has little to do with immigration or being a "little Englander". It's also not about prosperity that almost every politician bangs on about one way or another.
    For me it's all about democracy. The EEC was never designed to wield the power it now has. The EU parliament has next to no power whilst the unelected EU Commission wields vast power. As well as being unelected the Commission is for the most part made up of failed national level politicians who were rejected in their home country. There is no way any democracy can elevate this unaccountable beaurocracy over it's own parliament. The massive corruption in the EU (accounts not signed off since Noah was a lad) means that meaningful reform is never going to happen. Fifa has nothing on the EU for corruption.

    Germany is making many right noises about keeping the UK in. I suspect because they will pick up the tab for what we will not be putting in if we exit. France, specifically De Gaulle the ungrateful rat, has never liked us being in the EU and blackballed us twice from joining the EEC. They continue to be happy for us to leave though who will pay for inefficient French farmers when we have left remains to be seen.

    I have little doubt that Dave Cameron will bend over backwards to dress up his tinkering as "meaningful reform" and will then bring the full weight of the government to bear on the yes vote. I earnestly hope the electorate tell him no. Unlike when people vote against EU directives such as Holland and Ireland there will be no immediate follow up vote because we voted "wrongly". We will get this one time vote only to exit this trap. Get on the train - no thanks, it's going in the wrong direction.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
  11. Soximus

    Soximus Busy Member

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    Something I find funny is how the SNP wanted independence from England/UK but want UK to remain in Europe......bizarre.

    Also, many Scots want independence from a so called controlling Westminster but want to remain under control from Brussels in the EU...makes my head spin.

    I'd love to think we could make it on our own. Maybe being out of the EU would make our Gov. focus more on UK issues and start a rebuilding process to get the UK back into manufacturing and designing and developing world changing products....something we have been very good at in the past and now seen many good ideas/inventions/innovations go to other countries because of lack of support from our Gov.

    I don't know the exact value that it costs the UK / day to be part of the EU club but what would the UK be like if all that cash was invested into our own country and business.
     
  12. In-exile

    In-exile Donator

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    Out. I believe in the British people trading with the whole world not part of a restricted block...let's try to build bridges in trade with the old commonwealth and anyone else.. 60 million wasted paid into the EU each day by us!
     
  13. Soximus

    Soximus Busy Member

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    ...:eek:
     
  14. Stonepark

    Stonepark Engaging Member

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    OUT - No need for it - Government should be as small and local as possible to minimise the corruption and power freaks!
     
  15. oedbachgen

    oedbachgen Top Poster

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    Like someone has all ready stated, we were before, now its all scaremongering that we now cant, if you make good quality items, they will sell anywhere.
     
  16. c96

    c96 Donator

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    Dont think it will make much difference really, Cammerlon isnt going to get a deal from Europe.His postering has more to do with pandering to the back benchers in his own party:eek: and hes scared of ukip:eek:. We abandonded our commenwealth for the "benifits" of Europe , now well its a global economy so maybe we could go it alone:confused:. Two things we really need to do is start to punish severly these bankers who break laws and I dont just think it should be a fine but seizure of assesta alla proceds of crime and long jail sentances. Allso make coporations like Starbucks etc actually pay tax here at a proper level, no deals you earn it here you pay tax here, and alls o tax avoidence by the rich and famous, send them to jail like anyone else.:eek:
     
  17. wizard1963uk

    wizard1963uk Donator

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    out for me
     
  18. kal el

    kal el Posting Addict

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    out, i just think that i was a waste of life fighting the world wars to prevent a german dictator ruling, now having a one in charge of the eu and trying to bankrupt us is out of order. facts and figures can be bent to what you want but i do strongly believe our nation is being used as a dumping ground for europes unsightly to rape and pillage until our collapse and then we have to beg for a bail out.

    the big firms threaten to pull out, but will they? better the devil you know.
     
  19. c96

    c96 Donator

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    well despite Cammerloons postering dose not look like our European friends:confused: want to play so dont expect any changes before the referendam on in or out.:eek: reminds me a bit of another fool who did prime minister impressions name of Nev Chamberlin:rolleyes:
     
  20. whitevanman574

    whitevanman574 Donator

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    we had steel industry back then ,car factories, nowe buy in . also buying abroad if were not in EUC it will be more expensive
     

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