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Der 1984 HW77k, .177, Mit Factory Walnut Stock

Discussion in 'Gun Gallery' started by cloverleaf, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    As just measured the shot development time is coming in at a touch over 11.5ms; so the old '77 is a bit faster than most other stuff (typically 12-12.5ms) too :cool:

    Here are a few shots of the loading port I forgot in the previous post..

    SMALL_IMG_4692a.jpg

    SMALL_IMG_4695a.jpg

    :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  2. Der Stier Von Scapa Flow

    Der Stier Von Scapa Flow Engaging Member

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    Looking good, thanks too for the great write up! :up:
     
  3. JD

    JD Donator

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    Didn't fit the piston sleeve, even after doing a thread about fitting one.

    It's included in the kit for a reason.

    Good grief charlie brown.
     
  4. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Sorry dad :D

    My reasoning was that the guide should be sufficient to kill twang and there's no way the grease is migrating from the spring. There isn't a hint of spring noise without the sleeve so I don't see the point in adding mass and drag by fitting the sleeve.

    That said when the rifle has to come apart next I might fit it out of curiosity :)
     
  5. JD

    JD Donator

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    That's my boy. lol
     
  6. poolcue

    poolcue Well-Known Member

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    Great read and a lovely rifle. Good job!
     
  7. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Thanks chaps :)

    A quick(!) and pictorally-vacuous update..

    Shortly after measuring the shot development time I noticed the cocking stroke of the gun got really quite graunchy and nasty, so it was purposefully not used and later came to bits again :rolleyes:

    The culprit was bound to be an issue between the compression cylinder and main rifle cylinder (burrs, damage or contamination). Witness marks on the comp. cyl. suggested damage caused by a burr on the cocking linkage slot on the main cylinder, so this was thorougly de-burred on the inside with the usual jeweller's file and wet & dry paper.

    The gun went back together and was fine for all of 2 minutes, when the problem returned. Again the gun came to bits for inspection. A 2"ish long, fairly shallow score was found on the upper inside surface of the main cylinder; corresponding to a "mark" at the rear of the comp. cylinder. The cylinder was cleaned and the "mark" polished locally with wet & dry and then generally with Autosol.

    I didn't attempt to polish out the score (too deep for that) however it was flatted a little with some wet & dry to remove any sharp edge. The gun was cleaned, lubed and reassembled again; this time behaving itself.

    I'm obviously p****d off that this happened - the only cause I can think of is that (despite my best efforts) some remaining swarf from the poorly-cleaned threads in the end of the main cylinder had got inside the rifle, got trapped between the cylinder and comp. tube, embedded in the comp tube and then created the score in the main cylinder as the tube moved back and fourth within it.

    The size of the score was certainly too large to be due to a particle of abrasive used to on the gun (I only used 400 grit). So in summary IMO this issue can be attributed to Mr. Weihrauch's poor finishing and QC, plus my own lack of observation. I'm also annoyed with myself that, given the extent of the roughness, I didn't immediately look to the area of highest loading (the upper rear of the comp. cylinder) for problems.

    Ultimately you can't see the score, it does nothing to affect the operation of the gun (it's still as smooth as it was initially), it's par for the course to an extent with sliding breech designs, and it should wear in a touch with use so it's not the end of the world.


    I did take the gun up the club and ran maybe 50-100 shots through it. It's pleasant enough to fire, however the recoil is a bit more than I'd like - perhaps due to the lighter walnut stock and small 'scope I have fitted. Also I think that the short, stiff V-Mach spring gives higher initial accelerations than a longer, lower rate item; giving the impression of "snappy" behavior when infact the gun is running very efficiently.

    I also wonder if this feeling is exacerbated by the relatively light muzzle - considering that the alloy underlever latch must contribute significantly less mass at the muzzle than other designs - the larger steel assy on the '97k and early TXs for example, or the shrouded barrel on later AA models.

    I didn't manage anything particularly splendid in terms of grouping; although this was no-doubt hampered by the 4x scope and tbh the trigger is letting the gun down somewhat. It gives a crisp release but is a little heavier than I'm used to - I can't lighten it any more as the first stage is already a little squiffy if released mid-pull, so it looks like I need to have the unit to bits and polish everything..

    The spring has settled and the rifle is now producing about 11ftlb; with a more credible extreme spread with Exacts of around 4-5ft/s. I might pull the spring during the week and add a couple of Nylon washers to bring the energy up a touch into the low 11's. Since the spring has shrunk a touch, efficiency is still good at around 40% :)
     
  8. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    And so it continues..

    After putting a few more shots through the gun it developed a roughness during the cocking stroke again, so came apart again :rolleyes:

    The problem appeared to be in the same place as previously; possibly caused this time by debris from the existing damage.. because I didn't like stabbing about with wet and dry inside the cylinder, after a good clean I elected to reassemble the gun with some Autosol on the affected area. The action was worked maybe 200 times (and was surprisingly smooth considering), before being stripped, cleaned, relubed and reassembled.

    I think that perhaps the load during cocking was concentrated on the one spot that was affected (perhaps because of a high spot on either of the cylinders, or just perhaps because of the difference is ID/OD of the two). After lapping with the Autosol it appears that the load is now spread over a wider area (judging by the polished witness marks on the comp. cylinder). I'm now sincerely hoping that this is the end of this problem as I'm thoroughly sick of taking the sodding gun to bits..

    In other news, since muzzle energy had just slipped below 11ftlb as the spring bedded in, I added one 2mm Nylon washer to the piston to increase pre-load slightly and tested a few different pellets over the chrono; giving the following results with weighed (but not sorted) pellets:

    Falcon Accuracy Plus 7.35gn, Extreme spread: 3ft/s, Avg. muzzle energy: 11.52ftlb, Avg. Efficiency: 40.3%
    Air Arms Express 7.89gn, Extreme spread: 8ft/s, Avg. muzzle energy: 11.62ftlb, Avg. Efficiency: 40.6%
    JSB Exact 8.46gn, Extreme spread: 6ft/s, Avg. muzzle energy: 11.46ftlb, Avg. Efficiency: 40.1%

    So performance over the chrono is broadly decent with all the pellets; selection will come down to which is the most accurate. I'll hopefully get a few more shots through the gun up the club tonight; all being well mechanically I suppose I might then start on refurbing the stock :)
     
  9. Jackroadkill

    Jackroadkill Donator

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    Stupid questions:

    1) How do you measure efficiency?

    2) What sort of efficiency should a rifle run at, or would it be different for different rifles?

    Cheers,

    JR
     
  10. The Robin

    The Robin Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    As above :)
     
  11. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Not stupid at all - hopefully this will explain all ;)
     
  12. JD

    JD Donator

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    Omg : O

    And now in layman terms please.
     
  13. Gav19811

    Gav19811 Newbie

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    Hi guys I've been reading through the list of serial numbers and I have just bought a hw77 k the number is 1036031 and doesn't seem to be on the list
     
  14. landymick

    landymick Keyboard Hero

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    Those numbers have been submitted to the thread by the owners who know the age of said rifle.You look to see if yours is near to one to get the rough age.
    It is not exact but close enough.
     
  15. Gav19811

    Gav19811 Newbie

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    Ok thanks
     
  16. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

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    That turning out a beautiful old hw77 cloverleaf.

    Im not interested in the newer HWs in the older ones are far more interesting inmo and shoot nicer in my experience.

    Lovely stock on the hw77 also, I would literally do very little to that, steam and roll any marks out, take it back with 0000 and give it a light refinish.
     
  17. landymick

    landymick Keyboard Hero

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    It is a nice clean 77 & one i would keep with a walnut stock the ones I've had have just been beach so far.
     
  18. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Thanks chaps - it's not been out of the cupboard for a while but I smell a trip up the range again soon!
     
  19. kt83

    kt83 Posting Addict

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    The first time I ever shot an HW77 was in 1984; a mk1 .22 full length. I recall the ease of cocking and the nice quick action. I then had it's barrel cut back by Airmasters and have regretted it for some time now. My HW77k .177 has a Venom Tyroleon stock and would be irreplaceable.
    I agree with what you're saying in regards to the '77 being the perfect 12ft/lb set up. It just sadly lacked a proper comp lock up, open transfer cut out and too long a length of pull.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2017
  20. PiterM

    PiterM Engaging Member

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    That is an awesome HW77k, especially that stock! With a little bit of love (and elbow grease) you can make this gem shooting perfectly!
     

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