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Advice Daystate Mk4 iS - quality control issues

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by npmair, Jun 17, 2014.

  1. npmair

    npmair Engaging Member

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    Dear fellow airgunners, I would like to read your opinions on the following:

    I have placed an order for a Daystate Mk4iS in 0.177cal through our local importer. This was a shot in the dark as he does not have any rifles on display nor in stock to choose from.
    Anyway, as I consider Daystates to be on the top of the quality list, I took my chances and I kept my fingers crossed hoping to receive a rifle with a nicely figured stock - I completely have dismissed the idea of quality issues.

    The rifle arrived as scheduled and, combining several other things I had to do, last weekend I took the 12 hour (each way) boat trip from the island where I live to Athens, in order to collect it.

    The stock was nothing special, but not bad either, I would consider it acceptable, so I continued inspecting the rifle. Very much to my surprise, I realized that there was a dinging noise everytime I was tapping the pistol cap or everytime the bolt was going down to the cocked position. Eventually, I realized that this was caused by the shroud hitting on the barrel band. Nothing was loose however.
    Furthermore, when I have tried to pick the rifle up from the bench, I relized that there was another knocking noise, this time like wood hitting on metal. Then, i realized that the air cylinder was knocking inside the forearm, but again, nothing was loose!

    Of course, straight away I have pointed these issues to the importer, who was trying to convince me that "all Daystates are like that" i.e. the barrel band is making a dinging noise whenever one cocks or shoulders the rifle by hitting on the shroud and again, all Daystates have wobbly forearms!!!

    I am a mechanical engineer by proffession, an airgun collector, an active shooter and also member of our National Benchrest Team, so I suppose I have adequate experience to judge an air rifle. Furthermore, I have in my collection a Daystate Buckmaster (22/100) and a Daystate Wingmaster (66/100), both of which are very silent (no dinging noises) and with very steady forearms.

    I have immediately notified Daystate UK of the situation and of course, I have refused to take delivery of this particular rifle and I intend not to accept it, unless I first receive an acceptable solution to these issues.


    So, do all Daystates make ringing noises and have wobbly forearms??
     
  2. Ichabod Armacost

    Ichabod Armacost Donator

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    I might get flamed for saying this, but I think Daystate air rifles are vastly over rated these days. I think at one time they could justify their place in the market, but of recent times, they seem to have slipped back down the slippery slope of poor quality control, and crappy customer care. I am sorry you have been disappointed mate, but I think you have done the right thing. It will be interesting to hear what Daystate have to say.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
  3. SteveO

    SteveO Top Poster

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    Wasn't there a thread on here recently about the actions being loose in the stock on the Daystates and that it was a common occurrence?
     
  4. Shooter22

    Shooter22 Donator

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    Totally agree with your comments. Wouldn't buy another daystate.

    Regards
     
  5. Ichabod Armacost

    Ichabod Armacost Donator

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    I don't take any pleasure whatsoever from making negative comments about a British company, although I aint sure it is anymore, even if it is geographically speaking.
     
  6. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Super Moderator Staff Member Mod/Admin

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    Try a forum search - the problems mentioned (plus various others :rolleyes:) are known issues with rifles from a company whose rep currently seems to be going down hill alarmingly fast.

    Have a closer look at the shroud / barrel band arrangement on any of the current cylinder-fed Daystates and as an engineer you should recognise it as nothing other than a compete lash-up; the barrel does not float inside the shroud (as some claim) instead being attached by a bonded sleeve at the muzzle and two grub screws at the breech (this coupled with the screw-in mod adaptor frequently leads to alignment issues with moderators other than Daystates own, shorter Reflex item).

    Similarly the shroud is a not-great fit inside the barrel band; neither does it float nor is it restrained by an intermediate O-ring as with other designs. It just sits inside; sometimes bearing hard on one side, sometimes rattling around.

    These issues have existed for as long as the Mk4 and Huntsman have been on the market and Daystate apparently have little understanding of the problems or interest in getting them sorted.

    The best advice I can give would be to refuse the rifle, wash your hands of the whole thing and find an alternative from a more reputable supplier.. DS customer service is taking a bit of a panning at the moment, the shroud issue is a design problem that's not easily rectified without binning the existing setup and fitting a proper heavier-profile, floating barrel (you still have the stock issue and various other potential problems to deal with) and given your location warranty issues are bound to be a painful, protracted process.. :(
     
  7. milek

    milek Honorary Member

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  8. npmair

    npmair Engaging Member

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    Thank you very much for your replies.

    So far I had no news on the matter. Theoretically the importer is collaborating with Daystate to reach a solution, or at least so I was told yesterday.
     
  9. DUNKS

    DUNKS Big Poster

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    HI Cloverleaf.
    Just cant let you get away with the statement that the shroud on the huntsman floats around. Mine is a snug fit and the barrel band is held firmly by three grub screws onto the cylinder. Also why should I worry whether the barrel floats or is restrained inside the shroud. The shroud aint going nowhere and I have used my huntsman with a standard Weihrauch silencer and now a UK Neil reflex with no problems.
    I have no experience of other Daystates but I do know my huntsman is a lovely accurate well built bit of kit.
    I wonder how many folk on here knocking Daystates actually own one? or is it something they have heard from Freds mates uncle down the pub.
     
  10. jesim1

    jesim1 Kit bitch to the Stars

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    I currently have 4 Daystates and owned about a dozen, at least 6 MK4s among them. A few of them have had the action "rattle" on the stock sound - all of them were put right in about 60 seconds with a small piece of foam you get out of a pellet tin - fixed for free and job done. I am assuming as wood is a natural material that there has been a couple of mm of shrinkage since the gun was made, hardly a deal breaker.

    As for the shroud problem, I'm sure if you sell enough guns - and Daystate sell thousands - then a few will not be perfect. I've only had one with this problem, and it was on a Huggett shroud, not a Daystate one. The answer was again free, simply cut a couple of small strips of black electrical tape and stick "sticky side out" so it sticks to the barrel band, once this has taken up the tiny amount of play - about 1mm, the shroud is solid and accuracy was restored to brilliant.

    I'm not for a second going to say all Daystates are great, or some don't have problems, but there is not a manufacturer at under the price of a Daystate that can claim that. Just look at the BSA R10 or the new AA FTP900? A degree of balance is needed in posts like this - which other manufacturer has the confidence to give you 3 years warranty?

    So by all means say your piece, just don't try and pass it off as the absolute gospel truth and hard fact - it's just your opinion, like this is mine.

    James
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
  11. timmytree

    timmytree Pro Poster

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    You're right Dunks, I don't own a Daystate, never even fired one but I do follow the forums closely and take note of what's being said. You are lucky to have a seriously good example but many others aren't. I read of more problems with Daystates newer designs every week, nothing would tempt me to buy one because it's a lottery whether you get a good one or not. Not that Daystate are alone though because even AA and HW are going through QC issues it seems.
    I feel sorry for the OP who has risked a serious amount of money on a gun that appears to be sub standard and not really fit for purpose, not good enough for what should be a world beating rifle. In car terms it should be a Rolls Royce Silver Cloud but it seems closer to a British Leyland Allegro.
     
  12. Ichabod Armacost

    Ichabod Armacost Donator

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    If it walks like a duck, if it looks like a duck, if it sounds like a duck????
     
  13. DUNKS

    DUNKS Big Poster

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    Saying something which is just daft to get your posting numbers up is downright silly.
    Tell us all your experiences with daystate please do!
     
  14. DUNKS

    DUNKS Big Poster

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    I too feel sorry for the Op must be awful to lay out that much cash and he has my sympathy. I just don't like folk lumping ALL Daystates together. Join the DOC and read the complaints and good reviews, gives you a better picture. You cant always believe what you read. Some guys on this and other forums should not be out alone never mind have guns.
    My post by the way was not aimed at you.
     
  15. Accuspell

    Accuspell Pro Poster

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    NPMAIR - sorry to hear of your woes, but I have lost faith in Daystate. My Huntsman was superb (probably still is because I sold it recently purely because I had too many and wanted to make room). My Air Ranger is also reliable, but it is from 2006. Your Buckmaster and Wingmaster rifles are from a different era and from before the new venture capitalists owned Daystate. I hate to say it, but Daystate todat are not a shadow of the former rifles from even 2 years ago.
     
  16. timmytree

    timmytree Pro Poster

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    I understand your viewpoint Dunks, I didn't take it personally. I think I would agree with Accuspell that there has been a lowering of standards generally that affects not just Daystate but every other manufacturer as well. Many of us find that older models are more reliable, better quality and easier to maintain.
    New ideas and designs are brought in without adequate testing, the FTP900 being a prime example, I understand there is already a second design of regulator? I'm an Air Arms fan but new models that fail fill me with foreboding for the future of any firm that is happy to release unproven technology.
    Surely what we want is reliable, dependable air rifles that go for years without problems? Maybe the investment companies and accountants should take a backseat and allow the designers and gunsmiths to come up with a product that satisfies the customer and then look at whether it can be produced economically. I'm certain that the majority of issues we read about are down to financial restraints by money men trying to maximise the returns on their investment. Profit has to be made but no firm makes a profit long term by p155ing off their customers.
    Regards
    Tim
     
  17. Ichabod Armacost

    Ichabod Armacost Donator

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    I wasn't aware I needed to get my post count up??

    Question marks have no meaning for you then? I don't need to be telling you anything, there is enough already out there which is telling it like it is. You may not like it, but not liking it, wont make it go away.
     
  18. npmair

    npmair Engaging Member

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    Gentlemen, I appreciate greatly your input.

    Upon my return home, I took out both my older rifles and started checking them thoroughly. So far, I had no need to check anything as they both perform as they should - reliable and accurate. The only problem I had encountered in the past was a minor leak from the filling nipple of the Buckmaster, something that I easily remedied with some cleaning.

    Following Cloverleaf's advise, I have checked the barrel band / shroud arrangement. Although the design is the same, the execution is far superior in the older rifles.

    Reading Timmytree's comment about the Layland Allegro brought a nostalgic smile as several memories came back from my student days. Yes, the Allegro was a mediocre car, but at least it was sold as such. In my case I was offered a Rolls Royce Silver Cloud, but with a rattling dashboard and a squeaky seat.

    I have learned with time to fix and maintain my rifles myself, but under no circumstances I would buy a 1300 pound brand new rifle, and then exhaust my amateur gunsmithing skills on it in order to bring it to the state that it is supposed to be originally!

    I am sure fixing those Mk4 issues is something that I could easily do - I think I have managed far more complicated things to a good degree of success:
    http://www.airgunforum.co.uk/forums...ing-quot-Aeolus-quot-An-airgun-made-in-Greece
    http://www.airgunforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/120208-CZ-200-T-GR
    but my demand as a customer, is to buy something that should be perfect straight away. And also - maybe I am fussy - I don't want anybody having his way with screwdrivers, keys and foamy tapes on my brand new, unfired rifle.

    Nicholas
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
  19. SniperSi

    SniperSi Donator

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    I bought my firs Daystate from Blackpool air rifles, Huntsman classic .177 new. Got her home and on close inspection and tapping the barrel was rattling around in the barrel band, i sorted it by putting some tape around the barrel. I contacted daystate and they acted surprised and offered to have it sent in but i only just get the thing. Any way it was a choice between huntsman and hw100 but not long after buying the huntsman i had to buy the hw100. Took the daystate in to bar for exchange for my 97 and it was running at 9fp and said they couldn't accept it, until they looked at the receipt and realised it was still in warranty. Moral of the story is i wouldnt but another daystate, a new one that is, maybe an oldie.

    si
     
  20. Deanb101

    Deanb101 Active Member

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    Bad wolverine

    I recently bought a new Wolverine B that had a few problems. Accuracy was terrible, 2 inch grouping at 25 yards.I did expect to see one hole groups as per Airgun TV's review of the Wolverine at 50 yds. I bought the airstream silencer at the same time and found it wouldnt attach to the barrel as there was no internal screw thread on the inside of the silencer.
    The magazine would not index correctly it would stop turning after shot 7.
    I returned the gun to the dealer and it was found that the pellets were clipping the end of the barrel hence the poor accuracy.
    I heard at my local club of another Wolverine that was on its third visit back to Daystate for repairs.

    It's a real shame that poor quality control is dragging down a well respected company. A little more attention to detail may be all that is needed before products are shipped to dealers may be all that is needed but it doesnt seem to be happening.
    All was not lost in my case. I got a refund on the wolverine and bought an almost mint condition used AirWolf instead. Even with the new beast I have found the magazine accuracy to be very poor. Even the daystate single shot tray was difficult to use. I bought and use a Westy Tray and use single shot mode to get the best accuracy.

    D
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014

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