1. The Forum Rules have undergone some minor changes and updates.  Please take the time to read them; it will only take a couple of minutes of your time. By doing so, you lessen the chance of incurring the wrath of the moderation team or making yourself look foolish to other members.

    90% of users posting adverts in the Sales forums need to be reminded to read the rules as their posts are wrong.  This is unnecessarily time-consuming and will no longer happen - if your advert doesn't follow the Sales Rules it will be deleted and you'll have to start all over again.

    To close this box once you've read it (and the Rules), click on the X in the top right-hand corner.

    Thank you.

    AGF Staff



    Dismiss Notice
  2. A reminder of one of the Forum Rules:

    'Behaviour

    Do not make inappropriate or offensive posts - including threats, harassment, swearing, prejudice, defamation, deliberate insults or name-calling, other negative remarks about this forum, its moderators and administrators or your fellow members. Even if this is just your own personal opinion, RESPECT YOUR FELLOW MEMBERS.'

    There have been changes made to our censoring software in an attempt to help with this growing problem.

    Click the X in the top-right-hand corner to dismiss this notice.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Dear members,

    Our membership (like our country) consists of people from all walks of life; different in far more ways than can be listed here and each with a different view based on their experience of life - regardless of their colour, religion or cultural heritage. Every single person in the UK has been born of mixed race – we are a multi-coloured and multi-cultural country.

    As many of you are aware there are a handful of individuals amongst this membership that persist in making provocative, inflammatory, racist and otherwise offensive comments. This has been happening across the forum to a certain degree but is most especially prevalent in the Adult section.

    The moderation team has tried to stay on top of this, however unfortunately because of the ‘offensive’ nature of much of its content we don’t monitor the Adult section quite as much as perhaps we should. As a result much of this behaviour has gone unnoticed unless it has been reported to us. While the team always intended to take a "light touch" approach to the Adult section it would seem that some people aren’t quite adult enough to be left unmonitored after all.

    This behaviour is, and always has been against Forum Rules as well as the specific stipulations of the Adults forum and it will no longer be tolerated. We feel it's time to draw a line in the sand and as such from this point onward offenders will receive an immediate and permanent ban from the forum.

    In order for us to achieve our goal of restoring the forum to the friendly and tolerant place it once was, we ask that ALL members be mindful of the content they post and help us to stop unacceptable behaviour by using the 'Report' tool at the bottom of any offending post - the results of which can be seen only by Admin/Moderators.

    You should all receive a copy of this message by PM. 

    To close this message box, click on the 'X' in the top-right-hand corner.

    Dismiss Notice
  4. PLEASE READ
    You are breaking the forum rules if there is no comment on a sales or wanted thread by either the buyer or seller. 
    Or regarding to members manufacturing things stating something is going to be discussed and initiated through pm.
    I.e. 
    A buyer in manufactured section hi I’m interested in some work by you pm incoming.
    Or seller in a wanted add, hi I can do that for you pm incoming regarding it.
    Or a normal sale, hi I want to buy your item
    If a manufacturer gets asked privately about a sale they should say to the prospective buyer please comment on my thread to adhere to forum rules.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Hotmail block emails from us entering your inbox. Unless you can setup a safe sender you will not get activation emails from the forum. Please use an alternative provider or complain to Hotmail.
    Hotmail addresses include.

    @Hotmail.co.uk @Hotmail.com @outlook.com @Live.com
    Dismiss Notice

Daystate Mk4 iS - A Friday afternoon lemon special ???

Discussion in 'Anything Airgun Related' started by npmair, Sep 17, 2014.

  1. npmair

    npmair Engaging Member

    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    Mytilini, Greece
    I have raised the issue of poor quality control here: http://www.airgunforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/181648-Daystate-Mk4-iS-quality-control-issues but now here comes the full story.

    Daystate Mk4 iS – Serial # DS – 1267

    (I have refrained of including any personal opinions, quotes of the mails exchanged - which are at the disposal of the involved parties - and the lengthy record tables).

    The above mentioned rifle was ordered to the Greek Importer in May 2014. I was advised by him that it had to be ordered especially for me, as he has never before imported another Mk4 in 0.177 cal. since there is no demand for this particular caliper and consequently, he had no such rifle in stock.
    Considering the Mk4 to be one of the most advanced air rifles of the market and based on the reputation of Daystate rifles, I agreed. Indeed, the rifle was ordered to Daystate soon after my order was confirmed. A couple of weeks later I was informed that the rifle has arrived and I was asked if I wanted him to send it over to me – I live in the island o Lesvos, a 12 hour boat trip away from Athens. Instead, I arranged a trip to Athens in order to see and inspect the rifle before taking delivery of it. I have visited the importer on Monday, June 16, who presented me the rifle in its box and assured that I was the first person to touch it after it left the factory.

    Upon inspecting the rifle, first I realized that there was a rattling noise which seemed to come from the barrel band and it was assumed that it was caused by some freeplay between the shroud and the barrel band. After that, I discovered a knocking noise of metal on wood, which was coming from the rifle’s forearm.

    Immediately, I pointed these issues to the importers (father and son), who both tried to convince me that “all Daystates are like that”!

    Not being satisfied at all, I refused to accept the rifle and I have asked them to seek for official advice from the factory, so several phonecalls and e-mails were exchanged between the importer, Daystate and myself in search of an explanation to these issues and a solution to the problems.

    Not being satisfied by the information I received, I have also asked for advice through the Official Daystate Owners Club, from where, on 27/6, I received by email some reasonable explanations and proposed corrective actions.

    Following that, I contacted the importer and, after he reassured me that there was nothing wrong with the rifle, I agreed with him to send it over to me in order to test it for accuracy and operation. The rifle was delivered to me on 3/7 after I have paid for it in full.

    Following the instructions received from DOC, the barrel band was taken off, only to realize that the rattling was caused by the shroud hitting on the air cylinder. Furthermore, when I attempted to remove the stock bolt in order to check it’s tension and the location of the battery, I realized that the hexagon slot on the bolt’s head was slightly deformed:

    View attachment 103749

    With the action removed from the stock, everything seemed to be in order and well secured:

    View attachment 103750

    The stock was replaced and the stock bolt was very carefully tightened, but there was no change in the stock rattling.

    A closer look on the action under strong light revealed that some machining marks around the holes of two of the breech retaining screws were painted over with a marker and minor screwdriver marks were on the screw slots:

    View attachment 103751

    The rifle was filled to the recommended pressure of 230 bar and a series of tests was run over the chrony in both power setting, initially using the recommended AA Fields and two different batches of JSB Exact 8.44grain pellets and afterwards a selection of different weight JSB pellets as shown in the following diagrams:

    View attachment 103752 View attachment 103753

    In the Pwr-2 setting, the extreme spread on the first string was in excess of 100 fps and in the second series in excess of 70 fps.
    In Hi Pwr, the extreme spread in the first series was 26 fps and in the second series, again, in excess of 70 fps.

    Afterwards, in ideal conditions, I run some accuracy tests with the same pellets used before and here are the results:

    View attachment 103754
    Five shot groups, at 25 meters, benchrested.

    In targets # 4 & 5, the shots were fired from the magazine.
    In target #20, for comparison purposes, four groups were shot, with a different rifle, under the same conditions and with the same pellets as used before.

    Following the all of the above findings, the rife was returned to the seller and I asked for its replacement with a new, trouble free and accurate sample.

    The factory was of course notified and all the findings, fully documented, were sent to them for evaluation only to find out that they have instructed the importer (who happens to be a personal friend) to return the money back to me since DS does not want to supply me with any other other Daystate as I will never be a happy man.

    Eventually, today, two and a half months later, I have received a replacement rifle, which I am going to test tomorrow - but this is a new, different story.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2014
  2. themadspread

    themadspread Donator

    Messages:
    12,875
    Likes Received:
    7,256
    Location:
    oxford
    for that type of money that does not make good reading
     
  3. mattyts

    mattyts Donator

    Messages:
    6,201
    Likes Received:
    167
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    For the premium price Daystates fetch,that level of QC really isn't acceptable.
     
  4. jps norton

    jps norton One Hit Wonder

    Messages:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    3,475
    Location:
    Battle, East Sussex
    I would only ever consider buying an `older` Daysate now.
    QC has taken a nose dive lately and I too have had issues within my ownership of Daystates.

    A massive shame as they are UK based, for the money they command I would want a rifle in tiptop condition and without issue out of the box.

    When they work they are hard to beat but they have to work!
     
  5. jps norton

    jps norton One Hit Wonder

    Messages:
    4,027
    Likes Received:
    3,475
    Location:
    Battle, East Sussex
    Good luck!
     
  6. Capt

    Capt Engaging Member

    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Lathom
    I was about to take the plunge & buy a new one, I won't bother now for that price there should not be any bad experiences. It's a bit like going to a good restaurant and having a sxxxe meal, that's all they do is serve food nothing else. Like A PCP manufacturer thats all they do is make guns and should not have any quality issues. As they say you pay monkey wages you get monkey quality.
     
  7. darklord

    darklord Can’t beat a tx200 at 30m

    Messages:
    2,992
    Likes Received:
    392
    Location:
    NEWBURY
    to be fair a bad is is still better than most good guns out there.
     
  8. DaveSlain

    DaveSlain Active Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bristol / Gloucestershire
    I'm not sure I'd be happy with that as an explanation if I was a customer!
     
  9. milek

    milek Honorary Member

    Messages:
    11,725
    Likes Received:
    7,743
    Location:
    Birmingham
    How do you work that out? Bad is bad regardless of manufacturer.
     
  10. DaveF

    DaveF Busy Member

    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Rowley Regis

    A lot of guns seen to have problems look at the new AIR ARMS FTP9000 even more expensive, and even more problems, quality/ quality control seems to have gone down the pan since the recession cuts
     
  11. 177

    177 Donator

    Messages:
    7,717
    Likes Received:
    591
    Location:
    Berwick upon Tweed
    I've had a few Daystate rifles in bits - nothing I have seen has been particularly overwhelming in terms of internal component quality and fit (quite the opposite in a couple of examples).

    I really like how a couple of them look, and one in particular feels very nice in my shoulder, but I can't shake the internals or the two failures I had when I bought them (both new) so I won't have another.

    I can admire the from afar though :)
     
  12. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Honorary Member

    Messages:
    23,420
    Likes Received:
    35,984
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Sorry to hear you're still in the process of getting this sorted.

    Seems like you have a lot of issues; sadly none that I haven't seen on other DS guns.

    Fair play for documenting it all objectively - images and numbers do an excellent job of putting everything in perspective and context.

    I hope you have better luck with the replacement and will look forward to reading about your progress :)
     
  13. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

    Messages:
    2,597
    Likes Received:
    570
    Location:
    barnsley
    That is unfortunate, but I admit I have had the same problem on the three Daystates Ive owned.

    All cured by black Electricians tape inside the fig 8 clamp carefully applied so it cant be seen.

    I place 4 strips 3-4mm wide top, bottom, and both sides of the barrel, it has a positive effect on accuracy in my experience, (both huntsmen shot better for it), and you can shake all you want and no rattles to be heard.

    I know you shouldn't have to do that but it works, and I could think of no simpler alternative.

    Also regarding the fore end, that is because wood can never come out to the tolerances steel can be machined to and airgun manufacturers like to fix them now with one stock bolt, which Im not a fan of.

    However, you can take this out with a round sticky felt pad, bought over here in the UK at the "pound shop":D and I have taken the wobble out of various expensive shotgun forends using the exact some method, seems Beretta's suffer the old wobbly fore end also and that is often how the fore end wood sits in the fore end Iron, again wood can never be manufactured the same every time due to it being able to often warp due to temperature changes and stress of being machined, many rifles used in competions with custom stocks may have felt or some material placed in the fore end to support the action better.

    either way you should have a solid wood to metal fit on any new gun, unfortunately no one gun manufacturer can guarantee perfection every time believe me, Ive witnessed guns being made for over £100k with problems rectified with weld and re machined.

    I did experience problems with my Daystate Regal at first but I persevered and sorted the teething issues, its now my main go to gun and functions perfectly and will put a full mag of field target trophy inside a group no bigger than a pea at 30yrds, Ive taken quarry to the max range with the gun, and think its probably one of the best hunting guns Ive ever used/owned.

    When Theoben were still going strong, people constantly moaning about quality control, then they shut up shop and they have never been as popular! why because people learned to make them tick how they wanted and found out actually the problems could be ironed out by home tuners ect modifying existing parts slightly to work better,

    That may not happen in the future with Electronic Daystates but the mechanical ones may get a bigger following eventually if they go bust like theoben did because at this rate they are really going the right way about it!
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014
  14. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

    Messages:
    2,597
    Likes Received:
    570
    Location:
    barnsley
    Think about it like this there is no car manufacturer I can think of that can produce a car without problems, google any car and mention problems and they will arise lots and lots.

    You may buy the same car and experience no problems and when your out with your mates, you may say best car Ive ever owned!

    Where as someone else may say I had one with problems, Im never having another!

    Just luck of the draw with anything mechanical Im afraid, moving parts are problematic enough in mass production but ad electronics to the equation and your asking for trouble, many people swear by cars with simple mechanicals and hate engine management and ECU issues like the plague, my brother being one of them, drives a mk1 golf gti, Ive got a landrover and Audi but people constantly slate both, but touch wood Ive had no issues with either to date, that may change now but if I google the problems they put me off a car instantly its the worst thing you can do.

    You just have to go on your own experiences and sometimes you may have to put teething problems with a new gun right, sometimes it cost pence rather than pounds to sort yourself.

    But I admit I always think...Will all those electronic guns be shooting in 20-30-40 yrs time, I think not,unless some aftermarket mother boards are designed or something, but I reckon a few current mechanical daystates may be still going strong, if airguns are not banned by then.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014
  15. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Honorary Member

    Messages:
    23,420
    Likes Received:
    35,984
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    I agree largely with what's written above; nothing is perfect and you'd be misguided to expect to be able to buy a product that isn't flawed in some way or other.

    However, what angers me with respect to Daystate is their level of disfunctionality compared to their cost and the prestige image they try to promote. The price tag and brand image shout "top end" while the quality of design, finish and QC can be decidedly "bargain basement". Seriously, you wouldn't expect to have to stick bits of electrical tape inside the stock of a £400 Hatsan; let alone a rifle from a "prestige" brand that costs three times as much.

    Errors this basic and obvious are not hard to design out; the fact that these issues remain so prevalent and unresolved say to me that Daystate either don't know what they're doing or simply don't care - neither of which are acceptable full stop; let alone at this price point.

    Given their growing reputation for issues Daystate must be all too aware of the fundamental flaws that affect their guns; yet they remain inactive in sorting them while still churning out the ridiculous "best guns in the world evar" advertising rhetoric; which IMO is quite frankly insulting to anyone in the buying public with more than half a brain :rolleyes:
     
  16. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

    Messages:
    2,597
    Likes Received:
    570
    Location:
    barnsley
    Ive said it before the best thing they could do is ditch those flippin shrouds, who needs one anyway? Totally pointless.

    If they dont, I can see many guns getting rebarreled with a good 16mm screw cut barrel.

    In fact if the leccy tape didnt work so well I have a spare rapid barrel that would have gone on my regal.

    Daystate need to pull their trousers up though for sure.
     
  17. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Honorary Member

    Messages:
    23,420
    Likes Received:
    35,984
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Absolutely - totally agree about the barrel. With all the problems the shrouds have caused (that usually get blamed on "wonky Weihrauch mods" when one's fitted and starts clipping :rolleyes:) one wonders why DS haven't already gone down this path (along with a properly-fitted barrel band with an air gap allowing the barrel to float); I bet this alone would shave a good chunk off their warranty returns burden..

    If the prospect of owning another Daystate didn't loosen my bowels so, I'd consider rebarreling one simply as an exercise in illustrating how it should be done. Why do they persist in using these shonky designs? As my previous post, do they not understand the problem or simply just not care?

    They're evidently experiencing slow sales judging by all the freebies they've been doing recently plus their nose-diving reputation.. surely it would make far more sense to address the core issues that are affecting sales rather than burying their heads in the sand and dressing up their substandard offerings with trinkets and shiny things to make them seem more appealing..
     
  18. stryder5

    stryder5 Donator

    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    shrophire
    Guys, buy a Ripley...............
     
  19. engraver

    engraver Keyboard Hero

    Messages:
    2,597
    Likes Received:
    570
    Location:
    barnsley
    I saw a huntsman for sale not long ago cant think where but it was rebarelled and .20 and was a good price, and decent length as for power/shots per charge ratio, nice gun for the money.

    The reason daystate wont re address the shroud thing is because their full range of rifles wear a shroud now, so tooling is all set up, and maybe that is aimed at the us market where they cant have a silencer on an airgun in some states, (but they can have one on a 45 magnum:D)

    But even so Im sure the Americans will get fed up also like us if their guns are not shooting straight.

    I would be interested to know what it cost them to manufacture the current shroud and barrel compared to a 16mm blued barrel, but Im sure we will never find that out because that probably where they are making the biggest profit compared to other manufacturers who continue to make their own barrel in 15.8-16mm and blue and screw cut it, UUUHH EEHHHEEM! Weihrauch!
     
  20. milek

    milek Honorary Member

    Messages:
    11,725
    Likes Received:
    7,743
    Location:
    Birmingham
    I did
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice